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Thread: Terrain Bonuses

  1. #181
    +1, I like the list a lot, and Plains with 5% are nicely balanced within the other terrains.
    I agree though that Shores should probably not need a shipyard to unlock the food bonus.
    A nice starting point(pre trade bonuses) for playtesting imo!

  2. #182
    Archmage of the Inner Ring ampoliros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    Terrain: Food Bonus: Production Bonus:
    Deserts 0.0% 0.0%
    Forests 1.5% 3.5%
    Hills 2.5% 2.5%
    Mountains 0.0% 5.0%
    Plains 5.0% 0.0%
    Swamps 1.0% 0.0%
    Tundra 0.0% 0.0%
    Ocean 2.5%* 0.0%
    Shore 2.5%* 0.0%

    *A city must have a Shipyard to get this bonus.

    So, all that having been said, what do you guys think of these “Starter Numbers”?
    +1 from me, great summation Aaron

  3. #183
    Archmage of the Outer Ring jamoecw's Avatar
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    yes i am like the spanish inquisition, you never know when i'll strike.

    perhaps shore's food bonus is always accessible, but the trade bonus needs the shipyard. i can foresee an issue with small islands.

    these numbers look okay for testing purposes, i imagine that plains will end up with less food bonus in order to make room for other terrain (to be used with plains, not by itself), though needing a good food bonus to support workers might result in some other balance resulting in less emphasis on food (not nerfed to the ground though).

    i definitely think odds of getting special resources should be a factor, say 1/4 of all shore tiles on average should have some bonus, that way shore tiles are worth more, but in different ways based on the tile special. mountains will also need high odds of specials (though they do seem to have some of the best tile specials). overall i can totally see using the tile specials to balance those terrains (though deserts and tundra may need some really good specials).

    TL;DR - those look like really good starting numbers.

    ---------- Post added at 04:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:12 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Knight View Post
    I can live with that as a starting point. Though I would lower Ocean tiles down compared to Shore. Oceans should give something but really come in from the unique specials that would appear.

    Although for I wouldn't make a shipyard requirement for Share bonuses. Small fishing boats plying the rich fishing grounds are not all that different from river or lake boats. So I would drop that requirement.
    the problem i see with getting stuff from tile specials in ocean squares is that not all of the ocean is accessible, in fact most is not, so an emphasis on tile specials will make most resources out of reach, turning it into more of a wasteland, and making oceans less useful.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by jamoecw View Post
    the problem i see with getting stuff from tile specials in ocean squares is that not all of the ocean is accessible, in fact most is not, so an emphasis on tile specials will make most resources out of reach, turning it into more of a wasteland, and making oceans less useful.
    While that is true and should be taken into account, shallow waters tend to be far more accommodating to get food and resources than the deep sea. I just think Ocean tiles should be reduced compared to shore but have some truly epic specials to account for their rarity.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Knight View Post
    While that is true and should be taken into account, shallow waters tend to be far more accommodating to get food and resources than the deep sea.
    What exactly are you basing this statement on?
    My RPG Design and Theory Blog: http://socratesrpg.blogspot.com/

  6. #186
    Archmage of the Outer Ring jamoecw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy_Costisick View Post
    What exactly are you basing this statement on?
    don't know what he is basing it on, but it is fairly well known:
    http://books.google.com/books?id=6TM...page&q&f=false

    the continental shelf is close to shore in general, while certain spots have significant plant and algae life, which results in more growth than estuaries and rivers and such (which is also shallow water, and has a higher production in general than barren shore areas). as far as all the food that is brought in from open ocean, the animals tend to be migratory and thus you need to either intercept them at certain spots or be able to traverse vast distances. due to the nature of the game's assessment of the terrain value it becomes had to come up with flat values that reflect this, so certain tile specials are a good compromise. all that being said, coming up with some system that works with the cities inability to simulate the increased mobility on the ocean for resource gathering purposes would probably be harder to do in a way that simply allows for higher values than science would dictate, not to mention the issue from a gamist perspective.

    had this been a alpha centauri reimagining, i'd aim for a more complex method, dealing with derived values based on the distance to such tile specials (and doing the same for migratory land animals as well). MoM was about many different things interacting in simple ways, AC was more about a few things interacting in complex ways, and i feel a general bonus to what they should have is the simplest approach (if a DLC allowed or water cities, i'd think using tile specials instead would work well enough at that point).

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Troy_Costisick View Post
    What exactly are you basing this statement on?
    jamoecw gave a good link but there is a lot of evidence out there supporting my argument. If you need more I can go dig it up later when I am not on my phone.

  8. #188
    Kilobug's suggestion is a good one and has been noted

    Troy, I had also forgotten about the inland water tiles, lol. However, I think we can just give them the same bonuses as the shore tiles (without requiring a shipyard).

    Shadow Knight, you may be right about the ocean tiles (and are about the shore tiles). Either way, the numbers will be easy to change and these numbers will serve as a starting point.

    Jamoecw, I agree that the trade bonus from shore tiles should require a shipyard. We'll discuss that in the up-and-coming trade bonus post. (No one expects the Spanish Inquisition.)

    So, all in all we +1 the list correct?

    Unless I get some strong counter arguments in the next couple of days I'm going to update the wiki.
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  9. #189
    OK, I've updated the Terrain entries in the Wiki. I'm going to unstick this post for the moment
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