Terrain Bonuses

[Mardagg]

Deserts: -10% Food, +0% Production, +0% Gold
Forests: +5% Food, +5% Production, +0% Gold
Hills: +0% Food, +5% Production, +0% Gold
Mountains: -5% Food, +10% Production, +0% Gold
Plains: +10% Food, +0% Production, +0% Gold
Swamps: -5% Food, -10% Production, + 0% Gold
Ocean: +0% Food, +0% Production, +5% Gold
Shore: +5% Food, +0% Production, +10% Gold
River: +10% Food, +0% Production, +20% Gold
Tundra: -10% Food, -10% Production, -5% Gold.

I think that Rivers are paradise
Swamp and Tundra are really bad.
I dont like Hills and Mountains giving Gold bonis.
The way i understood things from the Mineral thread back then ,is ,that Gold and Silver Mines are much more likely in Hills/Mountains or even exclusively,so thats where the gold bonus goes.Just a simple Hill tile should not yield any extra Gold.
The Gold from Rivers/shores comes from trade routes.

Race bonis for different terrains are a separate matter.Not sure i would like to see increased upkeep costs for buildings though.
Dwarves for example should definitely get more out of Hills and Mountains.While Grey Elves should get more out of Forests.

[Troy_Costisick]

Deserts: -10% Food, +0% Production, +0% Gold
Forests: +5% Food, +5% Production, +0% Gold
Hills: +0% Food, +5% Production, +0% Gold
Mountains: -5% Food, +10% Production, +0% Gold
Plains: +10% Food, +0% Production, +0% Gold
Swamps: -5% Food, -10% Production, + 0% Gold
Ocean: +0% Food, +0% Production, +5% Gold
Shore: +5% Food, +0% Production, +10% Gold
River: +10% Food, +0% Production, +20% Gold
Tundra: -10% Food, -10% Production, -5% Gold.

I think that Rivers are paradise
Swamp and Tundra are really bad.
I dont like Hills and Mountains giving Gold bonis.
The way i understood things from the Mineral thread back then ,is ,that Gold and Silver Mines are much more likely in Hills/Mountains or even exclusively,so thats where the gold bonus goes.Just a simple Hill tile should not yield any extra Gold.
The Gold from Rivers/shores comes from trade routes.

Race bonis for different terrains are a separate matter.Not sure i would like to see increased upkeep costs for buildings though.
Dwarves for example should definitely get more out of Hills and Mountains.While Grey Elves should get more out of Forests.

I respect your choice and wouldn't ask you to change them, but do want to explain a few of my choices concerning the Gold bonus. For forests, there is a lot of wealth generated from the trees and bushes that produce nuts, berries, and medicines. These are not just food items but luxury items as well. Also, the wealth that comes from having a timber source so close should be reflected IMHO. The Gold bonus from mountains makes sense to me because it is easier to quary stone, especially decorative stones like granite or marble. I think creating special resources for various stones (like silver or mithril) is unecessary mechanically, so reflecting that in a Gold bonus from mountains makes sense to me.

[kilobug]

In my view, the "gold bonus in mountains" reflect general availabilty of a bit of precious stones, some metals, ... and the gold/silver/mithril/... specials represent a very rich mine of one precious element, giving further bonus (in money, or in better weapons). The two aren't exclusives of each other.

[Troy_Costisick]

I agree with your line of reasoning as well, kilobug

[jamoecw]

So, a city completely surrounded by plains will have 105% (21 tiles * 5%) food production bonus. Each farmer in said city would produce 2.05 food per turn (the total will be rounded down).

unless the square the city is in uses its terrain bonus it would be 20 squares for the normal fat plus (4x standard). thus all plains would be 100% food bonus.

[Mardagg]

I respect your explanations and they do make sense but i feel that hill and mountain tiles get too strong if getting production AND gold bonis.
Same with forests getting gold on top of being pretty nice already with decent food and production.

To me this is too much.As a rule of thumb,forest,hills and especially mountains should not be the preferred target to make settlements nearby for most factions ,despite for some special "functions" like being a production city to bump out expensive troops in no time or,indeed, for mining nearby minerals.To keep the MoM feeling,imo we have to keep the general direction it had for making settlements,i.e. rivers and plains by far most important tiles+ all tiles with special resources.

While i really like small improvements on this matter here and there ,I have great fear that making too much improvements on the various terrains will be ,well,"too much".
Especially if we consider that races will have special adavantages on certain terrains:

I say mining in hills should be a Dwarfen thing most of the time,so Dwarves would get a gold bonus(+ maybe food bonus) and more production out of mountains and maybe hills.This is fine to me.
Same with Forests for Grey elves e.g..

If we get more factions and maybe even subcultures we might end up with all kinds of special race bonis for various terrains ,even Deserts and Swamps, and having many normal bonis on top of this isnt the way to go imo.

I say, keep the basic terrain bonis simple and concentrate on interesting terrain bonis for the various races.

Edit:
Another thing i wanted to add is,that, most of what you have mentioned being gold bonis for Hills/Mountains and Forests is reflected in the production bonus already.
And if we say there is some gold to be made by selling stone and Wood for example,then we have to consider that trade routes are not an easy thing when you have a rather isolated settlement surrounded by hills or forests. Furthermore,there are probably a lot of rare plants and similar things to be found in a swamp tile...so going this way we might give gold to swamp tiles as well.

Furthermore,this leads to the necessity to increase the gold bonus from river tiles for example to a much higher amount,because realistically speaking,having a port or water routes ,as well as fishing grounds and what not,should be valued a lot higher in comparison to access to stone, gold wise.

[Shadow Knight]

-1 to Mardagg. I disagree. I view the different bonuses and negatives associated as an abstraction of all the other resources not being placed on the map that sentient beings pull from the land. Individual races or cultures will pull different bonuses from different tiles in addition to the bade bonus.

[Mardagg]

I could maybe live with a generic gold bonus for Hills,Mountains,Forests and Swamps if they are blocked until a road is build

If I really represent the minority here,then let me just paint the following scenario:

Forests: 5% food,10 % production,5% gold.
Plains: 10% food, 0% production, 0% gold.

I would choose Forest tiles all day.

[jamoecw]

instead of having 'good' terrain and 'bad' terrain (whoever gets desert terrain as favored terrain would have a distinct disadvantage, while whoever gets one of the 'good' terrains would have a distinct advantage), i figured i'd go for each terrain adds up to the same amount, and thus each terrain tile would be useful in some way.

Deserts = -10% food, 0% production, +5% gold, +10% research
Forests = +5% food, +10% production, -10% gold
Hills = +5% food, +5% production, -5% gold
Mountains = -10% food, +10% production, +5% gold
Plains = +10% food, -10% production, +5% gold
Swamps = +5% food, -5% production, -5% gold, +10% research
Ocean = +5% food, -10% production, +5% gold, +5% research
Shore = +10% food, -5% production, 0% gold
River = +5% food, -5% production, +5% gold
Tundra = -10% food, +5% production, 0% gold, +10% research

research was used sparingly in order make some harsh terrain, that still equalled +5% total. -10% food production tiles should be viable with some food production buildings and a small population. the only places with a bonus to both food and production is hills and forests, which are bad terrain for trade and thus reduce gold income.

[Troy_Costisick]

unless the square the city is in uses its terrain bonus it would be 20 squares for the normal fat plus (4x standard). thus all plains would be 100% food bonus.

I believe the square the city is on is counted.