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Thread: Arcane Spell List

  1. #21
    Archmage of the Outer Ring jamoecw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beregar View Post
    Then -1 for spell lock being in game at all. It's just too good to limit access to it. It's like limiting access to dispel magic to just one sphere.
    well what about the 'turn the whole world to shit' spell, or any of the other high level super spells that pretty much ended the game (aside from the actual game ending spell). getting one of those and the ability to prevent dispelling is too good of a combo, but if a circle lacks any super spells then a no dispel spell wouldn't be overly powerful, and could help the circle be competitive.

  2. #22
    Archmage of the Central Tower Happerry's Avatar
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    ...Until people go cross path, you mean? Like, say, every wizard in the game does?

    +1 for Spell Lock being Arcane. After all, people can just dispel the Spell Lock if needed.

  3. #23
    I plan to get back to this next week
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  4. #24
    Mage of the Lesser Tower
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    As for Spell Blast.. if it's not in Arcane, what's your counter to things like Zombie Mastery or an Armageddon spell?
    Disjunction (or Dispel Magic with the mana-slider set to Global), just like in MoM. Spell Blast was Sorcery-Only, which made it possible to sometimes cast a big spell without all the other wizards Blasting it before it was done. Also presumably things like Like Force and Tranquility -- I don't know if we have those in WoM yet, but spells that made it harder for other kinds of spells to be cast were neat and effective. Or things like getting Stream of Life or Gaia's Blessing on your cities worked as a nice counter to Armageddon and Great Wasting. One of the awesome things about MoM, which I believe we're trying to reproduce here, is that there was a whole *maze* of possible responses to things like that.

    Spell Blast, remember, stops a spell before it's completed at all.

    I never found Spell Lock that powerful. It's very nice, but as Happerry kind-of-said, it can be dispelled, itself, still, too. It makes a good perk for a path, but it's a long way from so necessary that the game is over if you don't have it... and flavor wise, it would be a really nice `gem' to put in Protection. Something totally thematic but not completely expected.

  5. #25
    Archmage of the Outer Ring jamoecw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happerry View Post
    ...Until people go cross path, you mean? Like, say, every wizard in the game does?

    +1 for Spell Lock being Arcane. After all, people can just dispel the Spell Lock if needed.
    max tier spells can only be gained if you go all in, which is why i would be fine with spell lock being max tier in a sphere without any heavy hitters.

    take protection for example, its tier 8 spell is a tad weaker than tier 6's meteor storm spell (or even tier 4 'omens of the end' in mentalism/water), spell lock kinda fits the protection sphere as well.

  6. #26
    Archmage of the Central Tower Happerry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lintking View Post
    Snip
    I'm just going to admit I somehow got Spell Blast and Disjunction confused and stop arguing about this.

  7. #27
    OK, I've tinkered on this today. I hope to get more done tomorrow. I did a bit of a writeup on Arcane Spells. Take a look and let me know if I need to add anything.

    Arcane Spells

    More than likely we'll actually start adding the spells in tomorrow
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  8. #28
    Archmage of the Outer Ring jamoecw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy_Costisick View Post
    Awareness
    Summoning Circle
    Relocate Tower
    Summon Hero
    Summon Champion
    Disjunction
    Spell of Mastery
    Spell of Return
    Disenchant Unit
    Disenchant City

    I prefer having the two last spells instead of Dispel Magic.
    Quote Originally Posted by ampoliros View Post
    I searched for the word "arcane" in the forum and found this list of spells from the Spells sub-forums as being suggested to be Arcane...

    Plug Gate (not a lot of discussion yet)
    Resist Magic
    Move Fortress (same as relocate tower as above as far as i can tell)
    Spell Blast
    Awareness (mentioned above)
    Word of Recall (same as spell of return as above as far as i can tell)
    Disjunction (mentioned above)

    As amazing as it sounds, that's all the search yielded. I know some of them haven't been made official yet... (Aaron, when will spell discussions resume?)

    And just for completeness, our arcane discussion thread.
    so keeping the number of arcane spells down to 9 total (1 for each tier) i'd say:

    • +1 Awareness
      • knowing someone is casting the spell of mastery is a must, there are a few other spells that it would be pretty important as well

    • -1 Summoning Circle
      • the only summonings would be heroes and possibly magic spirit, hardly worth the extra spell

    • +1 Relocate Tower
      • being able to move your capitol is a must

    • +1 Summon Hero
      • being able to replace heroes as they fall later in the game is important

    • -1 Summon Champion
      • champions are special, and replacing them shouldn't be a given

    • +1 Disjunction
      • dispel is pretty important

    • +1 Spell of Mastery
      • core spell of the game

    • +1 Spell of Return
      • core spell of the game

    • -1 Disenchant Unit
      • basically a fancy disjunction, why the extra spell?

    • -1 Disenchant City
      • basically a fancy disjunction, why the extra spell?

    • +1 Plug Gate
      • being able to hold a portal should either be a all or none spell

    • -1 Resist Magic
      • more fitting for protection sphere

    • -1 Spell Blast
      • long castings will get much harder if everyone has this spell

    • +1 Magic Spirit
      • early capture of nodes

    • -1 Spell lock
      • imagine a mentalism/augmentation sorcerer, omens of the end+unseen servants+all of the tier one unit enchantments+spell lock+transmute gold to mana = super soldiers against penniless foes, that either convert their mana to gold to pay for upkeep, or spend all their mana dispelling omens of the end over and over.

    • +1 Cleanse
      • at least some method of keeping magic from crushing your economy with one spell


    i'd put them in these tiers, mainly by their order of importance in having them:
    1. spell of return
    2. relocate tower
    3. disjunction
    4. cleanse
    5. magic spirit
    6. awareness
    7. summon hero
    8. plug gate
    9. spell of mastery

  9. #29
    Archmage of the Inner Ring ampoliros's Avatar
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    Word of Recall pulled a unit out of battle (or from overland) to your Summoning Circle. Definitely different from Spell of Return.

    Awareness reveals the location of Cities, not what spell is being cast.

    Disjunction dispels a Global Enchantment only.

    A little more info - Arcane spells in MoM were not assigned rarities because everybody could get all 14 of them.

    The 5 Spell Schools had 4 rarities of spells, Common, Uncommon, Rare and Very Rare.
    Common translates to Tier 1 and 2. Research cost from 20 to 250.
    Uncommon translates to Tier 3 and 4. Research cost from 300 to 800.
    Rare translates to Tier 5 and 6. Research cost from 850 to 1700.
    Very Rare translates to Tier 7, 8 and 9. Research cost from 1800 to 6000.



    Now to address the Tier suggestions.

    Spell of Return (as much as I don't like this spell - it seems destined to be in) and Magic Spirit seem like cantrips to me and EVERYONE gets these even if they don't take any Circles. (and indeed they were in MoM - everybody started with them)

    Move Fortress was a Rare Nature spell costing 1500 to research, so Tier 6. I'm not so sure it should be Arcane.

    Disjunction cost 750 to research in MoM, which puts it Tier 4.

    Awareness cost 700 to research in MoM, so Tier 4 again.

    Summon Hero cost 500 to research in MoM, so Tier 4.

    Summon Champion cost 1250 to Research in MoM, so Tier 5. I do think this should be Arcane.

    Plug Gate - new spell. I'm not convinced it should be Arcane, but can be swayed. Sounds like Tier 6 to me, maybe 7.

    Spell of Mastery cost 60000 to research in MoM, but you got credit for all previous research. I'm not sure it should be Tier 9, maybe just Tier 4.

    I'm torn about Summoning Circle. Part of me wants to keep it Arcane, but then I do see the argument for moving it to Summoning. Anyway 150 research cost, so Tier 2.

    To address Troy's concern about splitting Dispel... MoM had Disenchant Area which did an overland Tile (could be a Town). It cost 300 to research, so Tier 3. (So this is what Troy called Cleanse)

    Then Dispel Magic cost 100 to research, so Tier 1.

    Resist Magic was a common Sorcery spell costing 20 research, so Tier 1. I do not think this should be Arcane.

    Word of Recall was a Common Sorcery spell costing 160 research, so Tier 2. This should be in Summoning, not Arcane.

    Spell Blast was an Uncommon Sorcery spell costing 680 research, so Tier 4. Definitely not Arcane.

    Spell Lock wan an Uncommon Sorcery spell costing 450 research, so bubble of Tier 3/4. I'm leaning not Arcane.


    The MoM Arcane spells not discussed yet...
    Create Item/Artifact - not for WoM because of Item Forge.

    Recall Hero, research 350, Tier 3. A less effective and more costly Word of Recall because only heroes and only combat. I do think WoM should have both Word of Recall and Recall Hero. And Recall Hero should be in Arcane.


    Yes, I know MoM research cost isn't necessarily applicable to WoM, but it's a good start.
    Last edited by ampoliros; 01-28-2014 at 03:50 AM.

  10. #30
    Archmage of the Outer Ring jamoecw's Avatar
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    amproliros nice run down. i see that awareness isn't that needed, though what was the spell that let you know what spell people were about to cast? i guess we need dispel and disenchant in the list as well as disjunction.

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