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Thread: Destruction/Life spells tiers 1 - 8

  1. #11
    Archmage of the Central Tower Happerry's Avatar
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    Have another list from me~

    (And Sunbeam should not be a rank 1 spell if we're going with the DND version of it.. Though I prefer Sunburst anyway.)


    Tier 1: Disrupt Undead and Blinding Light

    Disrupt Undead is a nice simple spell that goes into one of the core features of Life/Destruction. Being mean to the undead. Tier 1. Blinding Light is something I just made up, and it's pretty much 'make a reflex save or be blinded'. A good support spell, and something that fits life better then a magic missile.

    Tier 2: Shooting Stars and Entangle

    Shooting Stars is the second spell I made up to feel a slot. Basically, it calls down a storm of weak energy projectiles (1d4 damage or so), on the target. Life should have some sort of effect that lets it damage anything, but it shouldn't be a strong effect, and I think Shooting Stars is favorable enough to fit that slot.

    Entangle is somewhat pushing it, but I felt it would make a neat counter point to other destruction spells. Instead of destroying their health, you end their movement. And life is the best suited to pull it off in this fashion. Not to powerful though, because it doesn't do any damage, so only tier 2.

    Tier 3: Blistering Radiance

    Blistering Radiance is a nice longer term effect, making a tile a no go area. However, after it is casted, it shouldn't be to much trouble to avoid that area, and it doesn't instikill things, so I'd call it tier 3.

    Tier 4:

    When it comes down to it, I couldn't think of anything good for this one. We can either leave it empty or you all can come up with a cunning idea.

    Tier 5: Overload Soul

    Overload Soul has a chance of killing most anything, but if it doesn't kill them it leaves them with lots of health. Powerful enough for a higher tier, but with enough of a drawback to bring it down to tier 5.

    Tier 6: Holy Smite

    Smite them undead!~ A powerful attack spell that can be dropped into the middle of a cluster of you and them and be expected only to hurt them. A good workhorse of a tier 6. Also can blind enemies.

    Tier 7: Starstorm

    Call down the wrath of the stars! A powerful if erratic spell. Maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't. Either way, in sheer power it's good for tier 7.

    Tier 8: Sunburst

    Sunburst. Lots of Damage, even more damage to the undead, good area of effect, and continues Life/Destruction's theme of blinding an enemy. A nice solid Tier 8.

  2. #12
    Archmage of the Outer Ring jamoecw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alghero View Post
    I'm missing at which stage you would use Invigor weeds?? At early stage when you have few buildings? Or at later stage when you are really rich and you don't care about money?
    the idea is 'uncontrolled city beautification'. so in some circumstances it would be bad, others it would be good. so if an enemy has a well developed city you can use it as a curse, or you can use it as a buff to one of your cities that has unrest issues if you don't care about the extra upkeep. i generally see it as a curse, high upkeep for a relatively small gain, but as i like give and take in spells (not just using upkeep to balance a spell's power) i figured i'd give it an upside so it can be used intelligently as a buff.

    i figure the more unique the spell the better (<element> bolt is pretty much a given for destruction), that way picking destruction means more than just 60 different do damage using <element>. there isn't anything wrong with spells like that, but too many gets boring fast.
    Last edited by jamoecw; 02-13-2014 at 12:41 AM.

  3. #13
    Mage of the Lesser Tower
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    Lightning Bolts have a long and valued history in Holy Smiting, but for our purposes, I have to agree - it's an Air thing.

    Entangle... is a good spell and belongs somewhere, but it's not Destruction. I see where you're going, Happery, with "destroying movement", but it feels.. stretched. Like putting a healing spell in and saying it's "destroying wounds". ...OK, not like that, much better than that, but still not right. I really like Blessed Sun, but it's not Destruction, either.

    Soo... we need two each for Tiers 1 and 2, and then one for each Tier after? I think that Ampoliros had a really, really good point about all the work that's already been done on this stuff so while I do have lots of ideas for this, as a relative newcomer I think it's probably best that I really start with what's already there, and that gives me this:


    Tier 1: +1 for Disrupt Undead; feels like a given to me. Akin to, what was it.. Starfires in MoM. Although.. well, I just went through this in the Summoning thread, but if I'm understanding right about how the Circles and Tiers work, this does mean it's going to be available to anyone with 1 point in Life or one point in Destruction, and I think that's going to make it a lot more common than it was in MoM.

    Tier 2: Blistering Radiance - on an open field, avoiding one spot is easy enough. Once you get a City with Walls, it can be virtually impossible. But this spell doesn't stop units from going through; a bit of damage and a chance for blindness (which I assume basically translates as an attack penalty) sound totally fair to defend your city with, like Wall of Fire but focused on one spot. Wall of Fire was a pretty simple spell in MoM, so I think Blistering Radiance can be kept low, too.

    Tier 4: Holy Smite - it's a good spell, but again, only affects a small class of targets. Which, as Happery notes, has its up sides.

    Tier 5: Unbearable Light - Again, this has a relatively limited range of targets, but it works really well against those, and as a continuing effect, this has a lot of good potential. I would make it castable Strategically as a City Enchantment, too.

    Tier 6: Invigor Weeds - I love this concept, and I can totally picture the graphics for it, and it's a great idea for using Life energy in a decidedly Destructive way - but it has to be high enough Tier/Maintenance to make it difficult to cast on more than a couple of enemy cities, or its impact needs to be scaled back. Or both. As it stands, this would turn Capital cities into major liabilities and could quickly cripple an economy. (Interestingly, I'm not sure this would impact the Unhallowed at all? Which kind of makes sense - what do they care? But it's a neat twist to have in the middle of Life magic.)

    Tier 7: Holy Word - Affects a whole battlefield, and if you're fighting the kinds of things that Life fights, it affects it a lot. Since it can affect any kinds of Summons, and not just Death-y ones, it definitely merits a high Tier. It should be extra-effective against Death Summons, too - maybe when it's cast, it rolls once for all Death/Undead units, and then once for all Summoned units, getting two shots at Units who happen to be both?


    ...So that is what I come to without offering any new ideas, and, um, I'm out of time right now, so I'll work on offering my new ideas as soon as I can!

  4. #14
    Archmage of the Outer Ring jamoecw's Avatar
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    oh come on, blessed sun totally destroys wounds, its perfect for the destruction circle!

    good catch, not sure what i was thinking at the time, guess i was caught up in the whole life magic thing.

  5. #15
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    I like Invigor weeds now that I can see it as a curse too. Can spells be limited by how many currently active there are of one kind? I mean other than how much mana you can afford to use for upkeep each turn. In that case we could limit Invigor Weeds to 2/3 currently active at one time and lower it a little in tiers.
    In Happerry list will then go to fill that Tier 4 hole.
    I agree with some comments of Lintking, -1 to Entangle.
    Seems to me that between Lintking and Happerry we have all potential spells? Just need re-ordering in the tiers? Any proposal for tier 1/2?

  6. #16
    Developer Hoverdog's Avatar
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    ok let's see:

    Tier 1: Disrupt Undead (T, damages an undead), Blinding Light (T, blind)
    Tier 2: Shooting Stars (T, weak direct damage), Blistering Radiance (T, one tile is rather unusable)
    Tier 3: Hmm, no idea?
    Tier 4: Holy Smite (S, AoE damaging undead and blinding anything)
    Tier 5: Invigor Weeds (S, increases city upkeep and unrest)
    Tier 6: Overload Soul (T, that quirky one)
    Tier 7: Holy Word (T, high damage to all undead and summons)
    Tier 8: None

    My idea is that each elemental circle has one "weaker" effect circle with no T8 spells in it. That would be (my associations): Life/Destruction, Death/Protection, Air/Augmentation, Earth/Mentalism, Fire/Biomancy, and Water/Summoning.

    Tier 3 is problematic. We could add another damage spell but that's... not fun. Any ideas?

  7. #17
    Mage of the Lesser Tower
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    Tier 3 Life/Destruction: Thorns of Retribution. Unit Enchantment. Causes thorns to burst from the target's skin. The target unit loses 1 HP (per figure) permanently (well, as long as the spell is Maintained), but gains a bonus to Will and Fort saves for being accustomed to the pain, and causes automatic damage to any unit engaged them in melee combat (attack and counterattack).

    If Sunburst is going to be Tier 8... Tier 8 is where I really start thinking Globally. Strategic seems almost minimum. For a Tactical effect, it needs to be awfully powerful to meet that Tier - at a minimum, forget the AoE, it would have to affect the whole battlefield. Or, as a slightly weaker version, it might be a good pick for Tier 3.

    (In which case I might humbly suggest Thorns of Retribution as a Tier 8 global, working like Chaos Channels in MoM -- automatically affecting all new Normal Units while it's maintained.)

    The idea of conflicting Element/Effect Circles with no Tier 8 is a neat concept, but I'm a -1 for it -- I think a part of our theme is the idea that the Elements are absolute, and the Effects are absolute, and there shouldn't be conflicts between them. If you want Life and Destruction, that shouldn't be penalized.

  8. #18
    Archmage of the Central Tower Happerry's Avatar
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    Tier 3 Life/Destruction : Exorcism
    A singe target tactical spell that attempts to destroy all enchantments on the targeted unit.

    While I agree that 'weaker' combinations can make some interesting thematic sense, I'm leery about it from a gameplay view.

    For Sunburst, it's 'normal' AoE (In Dungeons and Dragons) is a '80-ft.-radius burst'. So it actually should cover the whole battlefield unless debuffed.
    Last edited by Happerry; 02-13-2014 at 09:24 PM.

  9. #19
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    I like Thorns of Retribution on a single unit as tier 3. Could be an expensive but spectacular way to end the life of a unit with only 1HP?
    I like Sunburst as a battlefield effect.
    So with these 2 addictions +1 to Hoverdog list

  10. #20
    Archmage of the Outer Ring jamoecw's Avatar
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    building on the concept of too much positive energy is bad for you (as well as the good with the bad concept):

    lense of wrath - tactical, for the remainder of battle all healing spells heal 3x the normal amount, however the unit healed must make a fort save or take 3x the new healed amount as damage.

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