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Thread: Destruction/Life spells tiers 1 - 8

  1. #21
    Archmage of the Central Tower Happerry's Avatar
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    Idunno, it's interesting to poke at that with one effect, but more is kinda pushing Life's themes. And you need really ridicules amounts of it before that happens anyway. Even if healing spells are healing three times the normal amount, that still probably wouldn't be enough most of the time..

    Remember, you need about twice your normal health before the explosion risk starts.

  2. #22
    Archmage of the Central Tower Happerry's Avatar
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    Another idea for Tier 3 could be 'Light of Truth : A Save or Die verses illusions'. One of the description words for Life is Truth, after all, and revealing the lies of Illusions is something it already has a bit of in True Sight..

    Edit : Huh, this didn't get added to my last post for some reason..

  3. #23
    Archmage of the Outer Ring jamoecw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happerry View Post
    Idunno, it's interesting to poke at that with one effect, but more is kinda pushing Life's themes. And you need really ridicules amounts of it before that happens anyway. Even if healing spells are healing three times the normal amount, that still probably wouldn't be enough most of the time..

    Remember, you need about twice your normal health before the explosion risk starts.
    basically it was that the concentrations are too high, so until is diffuses a bit it could cause part of you to go boom (instead of all of you). it is definitely a stretch though.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by jamoecw View Post
    basically it was that the concentrations are too high, so until is diffuses a bit it could cause part of you to go boom (instead of all of you). it is definitely a stretch though.
    Yeah, I'm not a fan of the spell at all really.
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  5. #25
    Developer Hoverdog's Avatar
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    So:

    - drop Overload? Replace it with Sunburst (AoE damage)?
    - Tier 3: Exorcism (destroys enchantment)? I'm not a big fan of the thorns, really. Destroy illusions seem too situational, though it might work if we're going to include some other illusion spells other than phantom warriors/beast - probably working on existing units.

  6. #26
    Archmage of the Central Tower Happerry's Avatar
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    Light of Truth could also counter Invisibility, Mirror Image, and that stuff maybe?

    I'd prefer to keep Overload Soul, as we already have two AoE anti undead spells in the line up. (Holy Smite and Holy Word)

    Maybe Exorcism could only counter battlefield enchantments, not unit enchantments if we want to keep that one instead of Light of Truth?

  7. #27
    Archmage of the Inner Ring ampoliros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoverdog View Post
    My idea is that each elemental circle has one "weaker" effect circle with no T8 spells in it. That would be (my associations): Life/Destruction, Death/Protection, Air/Augmentation, Earth/Mentalism, Fire/Biomancy, and Water/Summoning.
    At first blush that idea sounds OK, but then players who want to be Effect specialists get gipped. Therefore this is a very very bad idea.

    Tier 1: Disrupt Undead (T, damages an undead), Blinding Light (T, blind)
    Tier 2: Shooting Stars (T, weak direct damage), Blistering Radiance (T, one tile is rather unusable)
    Tier 3: Prismatic Beam (T, think Color Spray)
    Tier 4: Holy Smite (S, AoE damaging undead and blinding anything)
    Tier 5: Invigorate Weeds (S, increases city upkeep, decrease unrest)
    Tier 6: Holy Word (T, high damage to all undead and summons)
    Tier 7: Sunburst (ST, large AoE damage & blind, extra damage to undead)
    Tier 8: Pillar of Heavens (ST, small AoE, huge damage, undead -X save, +purify)

  8. #28
    Mage of the Lesser Tower
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    "Invigor Weeds" isn't wrong; it's just an older usage of the word. I like that for a fantasy game; the meaning is still clear, but it feels a little, well, older.

    Hoverdog - can I ask why you don't like the Thorns of Retribution? I think it's a decidedly Life-based effect (growth) that's clearly Destruction in both its implementation and effect, so I was kind of proud of it.

  9. #29
    Archmage of the Inner Ring ampoliros's Avatar
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    No, invigor was never a real word. "envigor" was.

  10. #30
    Good discussion guys!

    As I said in that other post, this can be a tricky combo. I think using light and damaging non-living units is a must. And, as Hoverdog pointed out, we can add spells that cause non-direct damage.

    Just some notes:

    Lightning is Air. It just fits better with our take on magic.

    Invigor Weeds is an interesting concept. I would change the name and lore a bit. The idea would be that the spell so increases the growth rate of the plants in the area that they begin destroying the city. Grass tears up the roads, trees push limbs through buildings, etc, etc, etc. It doesn't hurt the population, but it may do building damage each turn. I think it could use a name change to reflect the change in lore.

    I think the idea of dropping the tier 8 spells in hard-to-cross circles is a good idea. We want as much symmetry as possible, but we don't want the spell list looking “contrived”. We want things to seem like a natural fit. Dropping tier 8 spells for Life/Destruction could give us room for more natural fits like Fire/Destruction or Water/Destruction.

    Now, let me look at the list:

    Tier 1: Disrupt Undead, Blinding Light
    Tier 2: Shooting Stars, Blistering Radiance
    Tier 3: Exorcism
    Tier 4: Holy Smite
    Tier 5: Invigor Weeds (New lore, new name)
    Tier 6: Overload Soul (I'm not a fan of this one.)
    Tier 7: Holy Word
    Tier 8: None

    OK, to review:
    I think the tier 1&2 spells are fine. Not much needs to be said.

    Exorcism is a good spell. It takes the ideas of Life and Destruction and combines them well in my opinion. It is an attempt to purge the target of whatever is “unnatural”. This could counter-curses on your units as well as de-buff enemies.

    Holy Smite and Invogor Weeds (whatever we end up calling it) are both good.

    I don't like the lore and name for Overload Soul. However, the idea of a life spell just outright killing something is fine. I would pitch it more like True Light or Unbearable Light (I know that name was suggested for another spell). The idea would be that the target was struck by a beam of “true light” they would need to make a will save of have the darkness within them (however small that might be) burn away destroying their bodies. It would be very unlikely to work on paladins, clerics, etc, and we could make it do massive damage to undead even if they succeeded in their will save.

    Holy Word seems like a given.

    Now, I do think it would be a good idea to flesh out the Life concept a bit more. I think adding a couple more descriptors would be good. So, I suggest we add Retribution and Justice to Life. (We can also add Revenge to Death if we like. What's the difference between revenge and retribution? The difference between life and death, my friend. How's that for a bit of philosophy? Lol.) I think those two descriptors would give us a little more wiggle room. Once we add them we can look over the list once more. Thoughts?

    ampoliros, you ninja-ed my post. Well done, lol. I thought about putting “Invigorate” in there, but decided not to

    A color-spray-like spell is a good idea as well.

    You make a good point about dropping the tier 8 Life/Destruction spell. However, the counter-point is that it makes room for two tier 8 Life/Protection or Life/Biomancy spells. Which is a better fit in my opinion.
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