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Thread: The Heroes

  1. #21
    Keep posting away guys! I'm beginning to "chop that wood", so we should get some in the Wiki soon.

    I did want to point out that as we're balancing we may add (or remove) abilities. What we're really coming up with here is our starting points
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  2. #22
    Archmage of the Outer Ring jamoecw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happerry View Post
    Vendral the Pyromancer
    Attachment 291

    Description- Sorcerer Class (Dragon Disciple Prestige Class)
    Vendral the Pyromancer is a famous draconian sorcerer, a master of flame who has awakened his own sleeping draconic blood, calling forth the power of his ancient ancestry. Graduated from his former master's tutelage, he now walks the world in search of new challenges to burn, a search for mastery that will not end any time soon.

    Abilities- Flying, Breath Weapon
    Vendral, as a draconian, is a skilled flier, and has awakened the draconic power that lies within him to master the breath weapon that is his birthright. Of course, before you face his breath weapon, you must first run the gauntlet of his magical arts. Arts that leave most foes burnt to ashes.

    Traits-Fire Immunity
    While still young to walk the path of the ancient dragons, proof of his coming mastery lies in the fact that Vendral is already immune to flames. No fire burns hotter then the dragonflame which lies within his heart..
    a bard class would allow it to make use of his breath attack better (bards don't have to know healing spells). the prestige class won't come into play until champion level either way though.

  3. #23
    Archmage of the Central Tower Happerry's Avatar
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    Er, no. Not at all. That entire statement is.. pretty much utterly wrong. First, off, for breath weapons, the Dragon Disciple's version of it is based on constitution, which neither sorcerers or bards care much about. Both would be equally bad or good.

    As for the prestige class, all that is required is that the person getting into it know draconian, not already be a half dragon, can cast arcane spells without preparation, and have eight ranks in Knowledge (arcana). All of those can be achieved by level five, which is where heroes start out at.

    And furthermore, why in all the heavens would someone trying to bring out his draconic ancestry, the power of, ever become a bard? Sorcerers are the ones that have always been fluffed as being likely to have draconic ancestry, and the Dragon Disciple prestige class is all about bring that power out. They go together naturally. Bards? What the hell would make anyone even think of a bard when they see a draconic sorcerer throwing fireballs everywhere, awaking the ancient power of his bloodline, and ascending to the rarified state of a half dragon?

    ...So no, there is no reason to be a bard, and no mechanical reason why he can't be taking dragon disciple classes as early as his first in game level up. Of course, yes, there is the no prestige classes for heroes thing, but I'm hoping that, as it has been for the rest of the game, good ideas and characterization can bend the rules a bit. It's not like dragon disciple is hugely overpowered.. I mean, it gives breath weapon and flying to a race that has.. breath weapons and flying. How horrible.


    ..And now, with that out of the way, have a new hero.

    Ssamia the Cleric of Storms
    tumblr_mgbxwcShaZ1rrusqio1_500.jpg

    Description- Cleric Class
    Ssamia is a Lamia priestess of the storm, a cleric who perceives the fury of the wind and thunder as sacred. Having certain doctrinal issues with her kin over that view, she has fled the lands under the ocean for the dry world the sorcerer lords fight over, where she hopes to find more interested listeners.

    Abilities-Caster, Purify, Water Walking
    Ssamia, as a cleric, can channel the power of her belief into the spells of water and air, weaving them together into the storms she worships. As well, she can drive the evil power of corruption from the world, purifying the land. Finally, as a Lamia, she is perfectly able to swim..

    Traits-
    With her pearl trident and armor of shark scales, Ssamia strikes a fearsome sight in her foes, and combines, like many clerics, magical and melee might.
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  4. #24
    Archmage of the Inner Ring ampoliros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamoecw View Post
    the prestige class won't come into play until champion level either way though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Happerry View Post
    As for the prestige class, all that is required is ...
    What Jamo was referring to is that, per Aaron, Heroes cannot have prestige classes. Those are reserved for Champions.

  5. #25
    Archmage of the Central Tower Happerry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happerry View Post
    Of course, yes, there is the no prestige classes for heroes thing, but I'm hoping that, as it has been for the rest of the game, good ideas and characterization can bend the rules a bit. It's not like dragon disciple is hugely overpowered.. I mean, it gives breath weapon and flying to a race that has.. breath weapons and flying. How horrible.
    I addressed that bit too, actually.
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  6. #26
    Archmage of the Outer Ring jamoecw's Avatar
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    and as for why a breath weapon would be better on a bard: melee ability. in both MoM and WoM breath weapons are an augmentation to melee attacks (not short ranged attacks like DnD), so better BAB, HP, and armor is nice. granted a draconic sorcerer would be better flavor wise, but keep in mind that the magic mainly comes from the SL, and the abilities are drawn from the WoM abilities. so a classes are more about HP, BAB, equipment, and saves than what DnD abilities the class gets (though it shouldn't be too far off).

  7. #27
    Archmage of the Central Tower Happerry's Avatar
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    Um, last I heard in WoM breath weapons were an activated ability. This may have changed, but that was how it is the last I can remember hearing about it.

    ...And even if it does, I fail to see why in the world someone trying to awaken the dragon blood within would become a bard, even if it would make him better at melee. That's like saying the cleric who focuses on bashing zombies should become a fighter because it makes him better in melee. No thank you to that logic tree.
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  8. #28
    I just wanted to jump in with an update on Heroes and the Unhallowed.

    The dev team has discussed it a bit and we've decided to let a number of Heroes work with the Unhallowed. Why? Well, because they are actually working for a Sorcerer Lord, not the Unhallowed. A Sorcerer Lord ruling the Unhallowed is trying to take over the universe. The Unhallowed are just the weapon he is using to do it. So, many Heroes might not care.

    Now, I know it's not air-tight from a lore point of view, but it will help us maintain balance. I would like to have the living and undead versions of all the heroes, but that is probably going to have to wait for our first expansion. There's so much in the base game already that we don't want to have to make undead versions of every hero.

    I hope everyone can get behind this slight compromise. It's for the good of the game after all
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  9. #29
    Mage’s Assistant Curtis6566's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happerry View Post
    Um, last I heard in WoM breath weapons were an activated ability. This may have changed, but that was how it is the last I can remember hearing about it.

    ...And even if it does, I fail to see why in the world someone trying to awaken the dragon blood within would become a bard, even if it would make him better at melee. That's like saying the cleric who focuses on bashing zombies should become a fighter because it makes him better in melee. No thank you to that logic tree.
    Hello, the resident compulsive fact checker here. Here's how breath was chosen to work in WoM (for Draconians):
    "Lesser breath: used before melee attack (so melee range, basically)
    Greater breath: line with range of 2 (so you can hit adjacent unit and the unit behind it or a single unit within two tiles)
    True breath: reserved for dragons only"

    It seems through my research that true breath is an activated ability, and greater might be. Lesser is what Jamo was thinking of. Lesser and Greater are only really usable in 2 range. The breaths are counterattack free, but not the melee attacks that occur afterward when in melee. True breath is the standard dragon breath that Happerry was most likely thinking of. So, it could be a Sorceror with true breath.

    For reference, low tier Drac units have no breath, mid have lesser, and high have greater. With that for reference, in my opinion, it might be best (if true breath is wanted) to give the hero it after leveling up a bit.
    Poll where breaths were applied to drac units (along with a description of what they do):
    http://forum.wastelands-interactive.com/showthread.php?10235-The-Draconians-7th-Vote-Breath-Weapons
    Drac thread where it was decided what the breaths were and did:
    http://forum.wastelands-interactive....on-Units/page8
    (post 71 onward).

    I hope you find this information helpful.

  10. #30
    Archmage of the Outer Ring jamoecw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happerry View Post
    Um, last I heard in WoM breath weapons were an activated ability. This may have changed, but that was how it is the last I can remember hearing about it.

    ...And even if it does, I fail to see why in the world someone trying to awaken the dragon blood within would become a bard, even if it would make him better at melee. That's like saying the cleric who focuses on bashing zombies should become a fighter because it makes him better in melee. No thank you to that logic tree.
    it has to do with the reasons for becoming one or the other, a fighter who focuses on bashing zombies might become a paladin, a cleric who focuses on bashing zombies might pick up some fighter levels. a sorcerer who is enthralled by his own fire magic might try to become something that is more fire oriented (like a dragon), a bard may become enthralled with the majesty of dragons and want to become a dragon.

    edit: thanks curtis, i knew it was floating around there somewhere.

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