Bug tracking

[WyldeRhide]

Hey folks, I've been putzing around and submitting bug reports a little bit with the alpha, but I'm seeing a bit of an issue with reporting. Since the forums are being used to report bugs, it's hard to keep track of everything. I'll give a couple of instances:

I have disappearing armies. I can:

• read through all the forum threads and be sure no one else has reported it (less likely as the forum gets more crowded) before reporting it
• Report it myself in a new thread or in the 'latest patch' thread

This causes a lot of duplicate "I have this bug" posts. There's a 'Known bugs' post, but it doesn't seem that it's updated with all the things people report.

I have a list of bugs that I've found and want to report them all. Basically, the only thing I can do is make a single post (or thread) that includes every bug (after researching the forum to make sure they're not duplicates).

This one's a biggie. If a post is made that reports several bugs, if one or two get addressed one of the developers generally pops in and says "got it, fixed in the next rollout". What about the other things?

Have you guys discussed using an actual bug tracking system (e.g. Trac)? It would give a really clear view as to what was fixed, what was considered 'not a bug', and what is going to be fixed later. More importantly, it would let testers see what's already been taken care of and what's been reported without digging through the entire forum.

Anyway, just a thought.

[Beo]

Basically that's what the "Known issues" topic is. We have an internal bug tracking system, and whenever something is added there, it is also added here (and vice-versa).

If a post is made that reports several bugs, if one or two get addressed one of the developers generally pops in and says "got it, fixed in the next rollout". What about the other things?

Can you please post examples?

[Myk]

Would it be at all possible to make the Mantis interface public? Even in read-only capacity, it would help us understand what the current state of particular bugs are and make the overall state of the game a bit clearer. It would save alpha testers a lot of time as well, as they wouldn't have to re-report a bug that they can see already has adequate information attached to it in Mantis. Finally, it would save devs time as nobody would have to keep the Known Issues thread synced.

I do realize that this may have some cost associated with it. Someone may have to go through the Mantis content and ensure there isn't any proprietary information in there before making it public, for example. But please do consider it as a way to embrace and engage the community.

[WyldeRhide]

Basically that's what the "Known issues" topic is. We have an internal bug tracking system, and whenever something is added there, it is also added here (and vice-versa).

"If a post is made that reports several bugs, if one or two get addressed one of the developers generally pops in and says "got it, fixed in the next rollout". What about the other things?" --WyldeRhide

Can you please post examples?

Please don't take this as me complaining about a lack of attention, but I'll use my own thread as an example.

http://forum.wastelands-interactive....h-the-Tutorial

I had a lot of context in it, and tried to mark things that were issues/bugs (though a couple didn't get marked).

I'll list them here by section:

GENERAL

• Units are too large on the world map
• Can't cancel casting strategic spells (on the overland map)
• When finished casting a strategic spell, clicking End Turn makes the spell go away without being cast

COMBAT

• 2D view is too far up the screen, looks like the grid is on the ceiling instead of the floor.
• All units' tiles are green until they're moved, then changes to green w/ a circle cut in it.
• Next turn, the circle-cut green tiles don't reset to full-green.
• Moving Pikemen diagonally gets them to 0MV, but the squire is solid (indicating they should be able to move)
• Just letting the fire elementals come to me (pressed 'end turn' repeatedly), one fire elemental wandered off the board and disappeared after doing damage.

CRAFTING PHASE

• Closed item builder, tooltip poped up referencing the Magic Panel which didn't open.
• Spellcraft sliders not linked
• Tutorial bugged out and item never got created. (assumed this was due to a glitch in the craft item selection.)
• 'Reports' window came up, but couldn't be closed.
• Magic Panel doesn't update 'turns to complete' numbers unless it's closed and re-opened.
• Updating of the Crafting turns is sporadic. Sometimes the number doesn't change between turns. Sometimes it jumps by a large amount
• The progress circle around the crafted items doesn't seem to work. It never got above 1/3.

GIVING ITEM TO HERO

• Tooltip says to select unit, but the unit isn't auto-centered.
• The tooltip points to the center of the screen regardless of where the unit is.
• Tutorial says to click the unit to give it an item. Requires a double-click.

UI

• When running in windowed mode, the map continuously scrolls toward the cursor even when the cursor is outside the window.
• Tooltips in the Tutorial are misplaced in 2D view
• When on the battle board, when I have 0/200 skill left, I'm still able to select a spell and a target. Nothing happens when I click the target (of course).
• Units disappear after combat. Right-clicking on portal square makes them show up.

So, in that post, I posted 22 things that were issues (not necessarily "bugs" per se).

Beo responded directly to 4 of those (two were working as intended, two were actual bugs.

A couple of posts later, I had found another issue:

ISSUE: When told to move my initial army to the sparkling tile, I accidentally double-clicked. This caused the 'Armies' window to come up and I can't close it.

Then, a big 'ole discussion turned it from a bug-report thread into a discussion thread. (A great discussion, btw)

So, direct responses to 4/23 reports. Aaron later mentioned (in another thread) that the tutorial was going to be completely redone, so a couple of the tutorial-specific things can be crossed off the list. And a couple others were maybe more opinion than 'bug'.

I'm not doubting that my post was read in its entirety, but there was no feedback on quite a number of them. The only mechanisms in place currently are to sift through the comments (which in that thread are no longer about the actual bugs) or hope the issues get fixed and aren't forgotten.

[Myk]

or hope the issues get fixed and aren't forgotten.

This exactly is the kind of negative experience that can be avoided with a public bug tracking system. Bug reporters can know that they were heard and that the issues they bring up have not been forgotten without explicit status reports to the forums.

[Beo]

Units are too large on the world map
Can't cancel casting strategic spells (on the overland map)

It's feedback, not bug.

When finished casting a strategic spell, clicking End Turn makes the spell go away without being cast

Not a bug, responded

2D view is too far up the screen, looks like the grid is on the ceiling instead of the floor.

Again, feedback.

All units' tiles are green until they're moved, then changes to green w/ a circle cut in it.
Next turn, the circle-cut green tiles don't reset to full-green.

Marked as done in known issues.

Moving Pikemen diagonally gets them to 0MV, but the squire is solid (indicating they should be able to move)
Just letting the fire elementals come to me (pressed 'end turn' repeatedly), one fire elemental wandered off the board and disappeared after doing damage.

This is a bug that was missed.

Closed item builder, tooltip poped up referencing the Magic Panel which didn't open.

Tutorial related (all tutorial related bugs/issues are currently give very low priority. As Aaron said, we are propably going to start over with it)

Spellcraft sliders not linked

Not a bug.

Tutorial bugged out and item never got created. (assumed this was due to a glitch in the craft item selection.)

Tutorial related

'Reports' window came up, but couldn't be closed.

Marked as done in known issues

Magic Panel doesn't update 'turns to complete' numbers unless it's closed and re-opened.

It does. Propably something else prevented magic panel from refreshing, which is connected with tutorial. Not enough data.

Updating of the Crafting turns is sporadic. Sometimes the number doesn't change between turns. Sometimes it jumps by a large amount

Bug. Missed that one, sorry.

The progress circle around the crafted items doesn't seem to work. It never got above 1/3.

Connected to the previous one.

Tooltip says to select unit, but the unit isn't auto-centered.
The tooltip points to the center of the screen regardless of where the unit is.
Tutorial says to click the unit to give it an item. Requires a double-click.

Tutorial related.

When running in windowed mode, the map continuously scrolls toward the cursor even when the cursor is outside the window.

Not considered a bug.

Tooltips in the Tutorial are misplaced in 2D view

Tutorial related

When on the battle board, when I have 0/200 skill left, I'm still able to select a spell and a target. Nothing happens when I click the target (of course).

Marked as done in known issues.

Units disappear after combat. Right-clicking on portal square makes them show up.

Not a bug, the army ntered the feature, it might not be clear.

I'll update the "known issues" with "Not a bug" section and "please don't report tutorial problems".
Other than that, general feedback is not considered a bug and would not be included in a bug tracker.
I'll be giving more detailed answers from now on to avoid further confusion.

There's a new topic for posting bugs (and bugs only)

[doomtrader]

We are planning to make the Mantis available for those who will be willing to use it.

We seen here a lot of awesome feedback and great work in helping us to hunt the bugs. You guys made extraordinary work.
This however needs some extra work from us to prepare and test the mantis.

PLease stay tuned.

[WyldeRhide]

I'll update the "known issues" with "Not a bug" section and "please don't report tutorial problems".
Other than that, general feedback is not considered a bug and would not be included in a bug tracker.
I'll be giving more detailed answers from now on to avoid further confusion.

There's a new topic for posting bugs (and bugs only)

I really wasn't intending that you respond to each of them here, just giving an example of what the situation was.

I understand why you interpret certain things as "feedback but not a bug", but to testers it's not nearly as clear. And in some cases where "feedback" is meant to help make the game playable instead of "working", I'd say it's valid in a bug tracker. (e.x. 2D map too far up the screen. My wife looked over my shoulder and said "What's _wrong_ with that???".) If it's not worth addressing, then it can be closed as "works as intended" or just marked as "enhancement, low priority".

But my point was simply that it's very easy to not have concerns addressed/acknowledged in a forum format, that's all.

Thanks for the hard work!

[Aaron]

It is hard work, lol. And it's good to know it's appreciated.

Even now we're working in the background trying to get all this streamlined where it will be easy for you to report bugs and us to address them.

And, yes, the line between feature suggestions and bugs isn't always going to be clear. We'll all just have to do our best to keep them organized appropriately