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Thread: Mentalism/Earth spells tiers 1 - 8

  1. #11
    Archmage of the Outer Ring jamoecw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ampoliros View Post

    Earth/Augmentation already has a prod bonus spell, so Builder's Resolve is right out.
    maybe if one was a modifier (increase by %), and the other was a flat bonus (+X) they could synergize without being the same thing. it would also help from having a lesser and greater scouting spell in the same category (one of which becomes useless when the other is researched). one could also swap the mineral infusion spell for the production spell as that might be a better fit for the two spells.

    at the very least it is something to think about.

  2. #12
    Archmage of the Inner Ring ampoliros's Avatar
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    I have no delusions that the list I proposed will make it in as _the_ list, at least not without much discussion.
    However, the only doubling up in my list is in regards to unrest.

    Nature's Eye will continue being useful after Nature Awareness has been cast and dispelled. And there's a huge chunk of game between researching a T2 and a T7 spell.

    As has been pointed out by multiple people, there is room for low level and high level spells having similar effects.

    I am much more concerned with the doubling of the unrest spells. If there is a good T1 alternative I would love to drop Placate the Masses.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by jamoecw View Post
    maybe if one was a modifier (increase by %), and the other was a flat bonus (+X) they could synergize without being the same thing. it would also help from having a lesser and greater scouting spell in the same category (one of which becomes useless when the other is researched). one could also swap the mineral infusion spell for the production spell as that might be a better fit for the two spells.

    at the very least it is something to think about.
    +1 to this.

  4. #14
    Developer Hoverdog's Avatar
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    - I simply don't like Charm Titan.
    - Mineral Divination would have no effect.
    - Bauble of Brilliance almost exactly doubles Life's Tranquility (only gives a bigger bonus)
    - Cognizance should be an Arcane spell (as in MoM)

    I've made a list of all city buffs, and it occurred to me that Life has spells that give bonuses in all basic fields (food, production, gold, unrest and population growth). So I've moved Inspirations here, where it IMO belongs more. Now Life excels at unrest quelling, while Earth on production.

    Tier 1: Nature's Eye (S, increases scouting range of a city), Mineral Attunement (S, increases production in a city)
    Tier 2: Sandscreen* (T, cancels shooting for one unit), Steadfastness (T, +will + fortitude)
    Tier 3: Tremors (T, debuff to all walkers)
    Tier 4: Inspirations (S, +production +gold)
    Tier 5: Negligence (S, -gold production for a sorcerer lord)
    Tier 6: Shallow Magic (S, disables infusion)
    Tier 7: Mindlock (T, all your units are immune to mind effects)
    Tier 8: Nature Awareness (S, reveals everything)


    Public Announcement: we have changed the way we're programming and implementing spells, and thus we need to have all spell effects done ASAP. Rather than doing Water and Fire the same way as earlier circles, later today or maybe tomorrow I will post finished spell lists for discussion and feedback.

  5. #15
    Man, I have to say I really hate that list, Hoverdog. No offense to you, you've been busting your butt on these. I definitely appreciate it. But that list is horrible. Almost every single spell is only good under specific circumstance.

    Mineral attunement requires minerals to be around. Sandscreen requires your enemy to have a ranged unit. Tremors does nothing against Draconians, and it appears to hit my own units. Shallow Magic is only good if your opponent even wants to cast infusible spells. Mindlock is only good if your opponent has mentalism spells. Nature's Awareness is only really useful upon its first casting.

    I don't mind a couple conditional spells, but this is way too many. There is absolutely no way I'd ever choose this spell combo.

    Let's go back to something like this:

    T1: Nature's Eye (S) - increases scouting range of city.
    T1: Placate the Masses (S) - Description: Unrest in enchanted city is reduced by 2 for each resource <chose at casting> that is in its area of influence.
    T2: Steadfastness (S/T) - +will + fortitude
    T2: Strands of Power (S) - Enchanted city produces +1 mana point for each <chosen at casting> terrain type.
    T3: Illusionary Guardian (S) - Creates a moveable illusion of an Earth Elemental on the strategic map. When a unit moves onto that tile, the illusion disappears.
    T4: Inspirations (S) - +production +gold
    T5: Negligence (S) - -gold production for a sorcerer lord
    T6: Shallow Magic (S) - disables infusion
    T7: Nature's Awareness (S) - reveals everything
    T8: Mindscreen (T) - Battlefield enchantment, all enemy fliers lose flying and all enemy units have movement and attack rate halved (round up).
    My RPG Design and Theory Blog: http://socratesrpg.blogspot.com/

  6. #16
    Developer Hoverdog's Avatar
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    Mineral attunement requires minerals to be around.
    Not really. It's a simple production boost, no requirements.

    Sandscreen requires your enemy to have a ranged unit.
    Yes. But ranged units aren't that rare (GElves have 4, unhallowed have 2, draconians have 2, etc.).

    Tremors does nothing against Draconians, and it appears to hit my own units.
    I'm open to suggestions.

    Shallow Magic is only good if your opponent even wants to cast infusible spells.
    Which is a lot considering spells like Dispel Magic can only work on higher-end spells by means of infusion. Actually, now that I think of it, there's hardly any way of dispelling this enchantment when it's on. Huh.

    Mindlock is only good if your opponent has mentalism spells.
    Considering the only Sorcerer Lord without access to any mentalism spells is an Effect specialist and even a single tick in an elemental circle gives access to mind-affecting spells, not to mention that at least several units will have some mind-affecting abilities, I do not think this is that much a conditional spell.

    Nature's Awareness is only really useful upon its first casting.
    It's an enchantment, not an instant.

  7. #17
    Archmage of the Inner Ring ampoliros's Avatar
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    I'm OK with H-dog's list.

    @Cognizance - MoM had a few Arcane spells that had better versions in a Spell School - but I'm noticing that Awareness is strangely absent on the wiki's list of Arcane spells.

    @Tremors - there's a TON of anti-flying spells, why not an anti-walking spell?

    I would make Nature's Awareness Tier 7, and swap Mindlock to Tier 8 and make it global.

    ---

    @Public Announcement - These spell forums have been extremely quiet for some time now. If we'd been going at the original pace, all the spells would have been hashed out by now.
    I do respect the decision the Dev team has had to make, I just hope the spells don't suffer for it.

  8. #18
    Archmage of the Central Tower Happerry's Avatar
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    Personally, I thought Shallow Magic only prevented tactical infusion, not strategic infusion, so it could still be dispelled...
    The Wiki.

  9. #19
    Mage of the Inner Tower War Troll's Avatar
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    Tier 3: Tremors (T, debuff to all walkers)

    I don't see how this falls under the remit of Mentalism. It's a physical effect rather than a mental buff/debuff. I could say the same for sandscreen.

  10. #20
    Archmage of the Central Tower Happerry's Avatar
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    Maybe rename Tremors as Agoraphobia?
    The Wiki.

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