Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13

Thread: V 1.0.404m

  1. #1
    Archmage of the Inner Ring ampoliros's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1,662

    V 1.0.404m

    I played a good number of turns this time. I quit when I conquered a City and did not get ownership of it.
    First - I am quite impressed with the progress over the last build. Keep up the excellent work!
    Second - I organized my notes into Bugs, Feature Requests and RFIs. Hopefully the separation helps.


    Bugs

    • I split the starting army on turn 1 and they both moved out anyway.
    • Mana reserve in the Spell screen said 0, when on the World Map it said 134.
    • When in windowed mode, the map should not continue to scroll when the mouse is outside the window.
    • Turn 1 I needed to left-click to enter the city. On subsequent turns I properly had to right-click.
    • Quite often, with increasing frequency for longer move paths, units still "Need attention" even with a GoTo command in place.
    • The "City X built Y" reports report the wrong building. The bug is just with the report. The correct building gets built. Units seem to report properly.
    • Excess Food does not convert to Gold at 2->1. (like in MoM)
    • The Cities list shows a number, not the descriptive text for what is being produced.
    • My Fortified Swordsman still "Needed attention."
    • A different Swordsman needed another click on Fortify after it was yellow.
    • I had the Cleric and a Swordsman go sideways on auto-move when they were 2 tiles from the destination.
    • Armies cannot move through each other!!! The should be able to do this.
    • After putting spells in the Quick-slots, moving the mouse over the buttons gave the following error in the Dev Console: "KeyNotFoundException: The given key was not present in the Dictionary."
    • Should not have to click "Cancel Selection" to be able to select a different unit.
    • I defeated the army in a neutral City and my army was in the City, but I did not gain ownership of the City.


    Feature Requests
    • Sorcerer Lord Creator - click-hold should continue to increase/decrease spell circle picks when clicking on +/-
    • a "Center on Active" button
    • Please do not have armies disappear into World Features! That behavior is very confusing.
    • Please open the spellbook anyway - even when no Strategic spells have been researched yet. I want to know what I've researched.
    • The spellbook should be accessible from the World Map, shouldn't have to go thru the Magic panel.
    • Need keyboard shortcuts for common actions.
    • Since the build "Queue" button still shows the active production item, why have the "Queue" button at all? Eliminate the button and show the queue at all times.
    • When an action cannot be taken, please tell the player why? I could not Found a City with a Settler and didn't know if the feature was not coded yet or what.
    • New buildings should not show up at the beginning of construction. Should wait until built.
    • There is plenty of real estate in the Cities list. Should be able to adjust Farmers/Workers/Researchers from here.
    • Do not require a second click to join armies together.


    Requests For Information
    • What is the spellbook above the circle menu for? I can't interact with it.
    • Are there any World Features coded yet? I can't interact with any of them.
    • Is the gold production correct? +0.75 gold per turn with a Marketplace??? -6 gold per turn to start the game???
    • Does the "Purchase" button work? It did nothing for me.
    • Why did I have a Swordsman desert when I was at +3 Food? (maybe have a built in warning if a micromanagement issue would result in loss of units/pop/etc...)
    • I don't understand the distribution of Magic Power. Why does 1 Research take 10 Power?

  2. #2
    Developer
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    670
    I split the starting army on turn 1 and they both moved out anyway.
    Can you elaborate?

    Mana reserve in the Spell screen said 0, when on the World Map it said 134.
    Noted.
    When in windowed mode, the map should not continue to scroll when the mouse is outside the window.
    See "known issues"
    Quite often, with increasing frequency for longer move paths, units still "Need attention" even with a GoTo command in place.
    Noted.
    The "City X built Y" reports report the wrong building. The bug is just with the report. The correct building gets built. Units seem to report properly.
    Noted.
    Turn 1 I needed to left-click to enter the city. On subsequent turns I properly had to right-click.
    You can enter the city by double left-click or single right-click

    Excess Food does not convert to Gold at 2->1. (like in MoM)
    That's feedback.
    The Cities list shows a number, not the descriptive text for what is being produced.
    Noted.
    My Fortified Swordsman still "Needed attention."A different Swordsman needed another click on Fortify after it was yellow.
    Yellow fortify (and heal) means that there's an enemy army in sight - you have to re-fortify manually each turn.
    I had the Cleric and a Swordsman go sideways on auto-move when they were 2 tiles from the destination.
    You mean the army didn't follow the path?
    That happens when you 'discover' an enemy army. We are aware of that.
    Armies cannot move through each other!!! The should be able to do this.
    Friendly army can move through friendly army, but not through enemy army.
    After putting spells in the Quick-slots, moving the mouse over the buttons gave the following error in the Dev Console: "KeyNotFoundException: The given key was not present in the Dictionary."
    Noted. The combat spellbook will be redone in the next build.
    Should not have to click "Cancel Selection" to be able to select a different unit.
    That's feedback. You can also right-click to deselect unit.
    I defeated the army in a neutral City and my army was in the City, but I did not gain ownership of the City.
    Not implemented.


    The spellbook should be accessible from the World Map, shouldn't have to go thru the Magic panel.
    What is the spellbook above the circle menu for? I can't interact with it.
    You open spellbook (not researchbook) by using this icon. Only strategic spells are visible there, it won't open unless you have at least one strategic spell.


    Are there any World Features coded yet? I can't interact with any of them.
    All visible world featues are working.
    Is the gold production correct? +0.75 gold per turn with a Marketplace??? -6 gold per turn to start the game???
    Most of that is left to balance. Negative productions includes upkeep costs.
    Does the "Purchase" button work? It did nothing for me.
    No, see "known issues".
    Why did I have a Swordsman desert when I was at +3 Food? (maybe have a built in warning if a micromanagement issue would result in loss of units/pop/etc...)
    That's strange. Which turn was that? What about gold?
    I don't understand the distribution of Magic Power. Why does 1 Research take 10 Power?
    That's even stranger. One point of power equals one point in mana/spellcraft/research UNLESS you have discipline like sage, which makes your power "more valuable" (10 power = 15 research). There are also research bonuses form cities and world features. (and from events, but they weren't included in the latest build)



    Thanks for feedback, that's quite a lot of points.

  3. #3
    Archmage of the Inner Ring ampoliros's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1,662
    I split the starting army on turn 1 and they both moved out anyway.

    Can you elaborate?
    Just that, I dragged the Cleric into a separate army and gave a move order. Both units moved.

    Turn 1 I needed to left-click to enter the city. On subsequent turns I properly had to right-click.

    You can enter the city by double left-click or single right-click
    I was trying everything. If it happens next build I'll let you know.

    My Fortified Swordsman still "Needed attention."A different Swordsman needed another click on Fortify after it was yellow.

    Yellow fortify (and heal) means that there's an enemy army in sight - you have to re-fortify manually each turn.
    That's insane! Fortify means Fortify!

    Armies cannot move through each other!!! The should be able to do this.

    Friendly army can move through friendly army, but not through enemy army.
    Let me elaborate. Your own army should not block an auto-move path.

    Should not have to click "Cancel Selection" to be able to select a different unit.

    That's feedback. You can also right-click to deselect unit.
    Again, I was trying everything. The Cancel Selection button was the only thing that worked.

    The spellbook should be accessible from the World Map, shouldn't have to go thru the Magic panel.

    What is the spellbook above the circle menu for? I can't interact with it.

    You open spellbook (not researchbook) by using this icon. Only strategic spells are visible there, it won't open unless you have at least one strategic spell.
    This falls back to my feature request. The Strategic spellbook should open no matter what. And it should show your tactical spells as well.

    Are there any World Features coded yet? I can't interact with any of them.

    All visible world featues are working.
    OK then, How do you interact with them?

    Why did I have a Swordsman desert when I was at +3 Food? (maybe have a built in warning if a micromanagement issue would result in loss of units/pop/etc...)

    That's strange. Which turn was that? What about gold?
    I was negative gold per turn, that's just a given. But with all the merchants dying I had a ton of gold. I finished my play thru with over 900 gold on turn 50-something.

    I don't understand the distribution of Magic Power. Why does 1 Research take 10 Power?

    That's even stranger. One point of power equals one point in mana/spellcraft/research UNLESS you have discipline like sage, which makes your power "more valuable" (10 power = 15 research). There are also research bonuses form cities and world features. (and from events, but they weren't included in the latest build)
    That is correct. My 110 Power was split as 5 Skillcraft / 5 Reserve / 10 Research. And it did take 10 turns to research a 100 point spell.


    And everything you say, "That's Feedback" about... From the user's standpoint, they are bugs.

    I also noticed you have a couple "known issues" comments. As other people have pointed out, a web forum is not the best place to be bug reporting. It is so clumsy for keeping everything straight. The only sane way I can think of for giving feedback is to report it the way I did - with build number and all.

  4. #4
    ampoliros, first off I want to thank you for the time you've taken. You not only played enough to unearth all this, but also reported it in a very thorough and organized way. That's a big help to us. The more feedback we get like that the easier it's going to be to find and kill bugs. It will also help us decide what controls and features need tweaked.

    Now, as I've said elsewhere, the line between bug report and feedback is a blurry one, lol. Just looking over what Beo marked as “feedback” we have:

    Excess Food does not convert to Gold at 2->1. (like in MoM)

    WoM let's you store food for future use. We haven't decided whether or not excess food will be converted into gold or not. As that's the case it's not really a bug. It's working as it's designed to. Now, there's no way for you to know that before you tell us and we understand that. For clarity's sake, however, it's feedback, not a bug.

    Should not have to click "Cancel Selection" to be able to select a different unit.

    Again, the difference between bug report and feedback here is that the game is doing what we've programmed it to do. So, again, it's not really a bug. As Beo pointed out you can right click to deselect a unit. That's not to say we shouldn't change the way it works, just that it's working like we intended it to at the moment. (A lot of things are going to change during the Alpha. That's one of the reasons we're doing it.)


    Once again, the line between bug report and feedback is blurry. You testers don't need to worry about that, however. You just call it as you see it and we'll work with it from there.

    When Beo says “That's feedback” he's not dismissing what you've said at all. He's merely conveying in the fewest possible words the idea that there's not a problem with the code. If you see a problem with the way it works it's a matter of a “How it should work”, not “How it is working” if you see what I mean. Changes in “How it should work” are things we should discuss as separate topics. The ins and outs of how things can and/or should be handled can turn into lengthy posts. That's not something we need in a post that also contains bug reports.

    I hope you see the line I'm drawing between the two ideas.

    In any event, when Beo says “That's feedback” don't think what you've said is being ignored. That's not the case.

    You make a good point about the “Know Issues” issue. Still, Beo was merely letting you know that we're aware of the bug, we acknowledge that it is a bug, and that it's not fixed yet. And we do have the “Known Issues” post:

    Known Issues

    Still, we may need to do something more. (We're still considering just what that "more" should be.)

    Either way, thanks for the great feedback! Keep it coming!!
    Everybody needs friends! Aaron's Facebook Page

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    In any event, when Beo says “That's feedback” don't think what you've said is being ignored. That's not the case.
    I can't speak for everyone, but I think we get the "feedback vs. bug" idea, and it's not wrong. I've been on both sides of this, having coded for a living. I'm sure what's going on is that Beo is a busy guy knee-deep in code and tasks, and he's trying to be as succinct as possible in his responses so he can respond quickly and get back to quashing bugs.

    What you have, unfortunately, is the case that none of us are actual paid QA/testing staff. We obviously don't know what you've made as design decisions vs. what we think things should work like. And sadly, a curt response like "That's feedback" (especially from a coder) comes off very much like it's not his problem and it's therefore not going to be addressed (by him). So, it seems to the non-paid QA/testers that it's being ignored until someone steps up and gives a more full explanation of the situation, because we can't tell whether it's "Working as intended" or "That's feedback (no indication whether it's intended or not on the radar).

    I'm not looking for apologies or explanations. As I've said, I understand the developers' mindset (and have shared it in the past), but if the community is going to be doing the QA/testing, it's probably best to minimize any animosity or marginalization they're feeling. (Which, Aaron, I think you do a pretty good job at.)

    I guess my only real suggestion to help out is instead of responding "That's feedback." respond with "Working as intended. Start a new discussion thread if you feel it should be changed."
    Last edited by WyldeRhide; 04-21-2014 at 02:16 PM. Reason: spelling

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ampoliros View Post
    OK then, How do you interact with them?
    The trouble you are having with World Features right now is that almost none of them give any feedback right now. This will change in the future.

    But back to your question:

    1. You can interact with majority of them only when you have any of your armies selected. The cursor will change it's shape to a hand if there is an interaction available. If that happens you can move your army there and while having them selected and standing inside that Feature right-click on the tile. This should fire the interaction (if you have any movement points left of course).

    2. If you have your army selected and hover over the tile with the Feature and the cursor doesn't change, that probably means that this feature requires only an army standing inside and no additional actions.

    There are also few additional ones:
    Nodes - require capturing like in 1 scenario and then building a Siphon on top of it with a special unit (spearman currently)
    Ancient & Volcanic ruins - require capturing like in 1 scenario and then restoring it with a settler by using his ability while inside the ruins.

    Hopefully that cleared few things for you.

  7. #7
    WyldeRhide, you're exactly right. Beo certainly wasn't trying to be curt. He was just trying to be quick. After all, he was responding on one of his days off, lol.

    Thanks for the answer Rivva
    Everybody needs friends! Aaron's Facebook Page

  8. #8
    Abecedarian Mage Trudd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Bordeaux (France)
    Posts
    174
    Maybe the simplest thing is to make a small manual, a "how to" list that summerize the thing already implemented in the alpha.
    It could be an easy way to see what we can experiment deeper in the game to see if it does work or not...

  9. #9
    I actually plan to start work on a "Getting Started" guide before too long. I plan to work it into the wiki
    Everybody needs friends! Aaron's Facebook Page

  10. #10
    OK, here's my post about the new Getting Started Guide:

    http://forum.wastelands-interactive....-Started-Guide

    I could use some feedback
    Everybody needs friends! Aaron's Facebook Page

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
footer