Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 26

Thread: d20 Mechanics?

  1. #11
    Mage of the Lesser Tower
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    253
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    Thanks for weighing in Jamo

    Yco, I see you're point, but we went the route of "average hit points" (like you find in the D&D Monster Manual for example). Each unit's hit points are actually the average hit points of each member (half a hit die + all bonuses) multiplied by the number of members. It does simplify the system a bit, but we feel it works. Of course, we can always consider adding individual hit points in time. I'm not sure how much support the idea would get in the context of WoM, however, it's something we can look at.
    Cool, thanks for that explanation - it's a great idea to use monster hit die for units! (I mistakenly thought you hardcoded a HP number that you tweaked based on 'balance factors')

  2. #12
    Archmage of the Outer Ring jamoecw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1,047
    Quote Originally Posted by Yco View Post
    I'd also question the wisdom of hard-coding HP while simultaneously allowing each figure to make an attack roll. The point of making a roll is to balance up against diverse (dynamic) HP scores in the D20 system. Removing one half of that dynamism seems to work against the system's design.
    actually in the DM's guide it talks about ways to remove randomness from games, and one of the main ways is to have fixed HP per level. this is due to such importance on a single roll. granted this is mitigated quite a bit by volume of units as well as multiple figures per unit.

    also keep in mind that RNG in computers is quite different than rolling of dice, the rolling of dice is generally more random than video game implementation. one common issue is that the RNG is derived from taking the millisec count from the internal clock. this clock regulates code processing as well. so based on the existing running scripts the RNG will insert itself at a regular part of the cycle. based on computer architecture, as well as background programs, and a slew of other factors this cycle will be different lengths. as the length approaches the divisor used in the RNG (4, 6, 10, 12, 20, etc.) the number grabbed will be more similar to the one previously grabbed when grabbing bulk RNGs. the code length without the RNG inserting itself if it matches the divisor used, then the number will only shift by the amount that the RNG script offsets the cycle each time, resulting in very predictable results.

    keep in mind that you don't actually get to see what is happening under the hood, and that factors will shift while playing. thus even perfectly synced code cycles won't stay synced, and the odds of your game session having perfectly synced code cycles is rare. that being said, vegas doesn't rely on such improbabilities, as improbable stuff eventually does happen, and results in non random trends. so vegas tracks the numbers rolled and ensures the overall results match what they want (like ensuring 5% 20s on a D20 across 1000 rolls, they just don't pick when those happen).

    since video games don't do this (i have never heard of any doing this), the more RNG that occurs in a game the less stable the results, as certain people at certain times will get a disproportionate amount of bad rolls, and certain people at certain times will get a disproportionate amount of good rolls. so someone that tends to have a string of bad luck might not actually be crazy for thinking the game is cheating, and someone that says the game was laughably easy might just have had consistently good rolls.

    the devs can average things across everyone and will get fairly standard numbers that match the RNG, however that doesn't mean that certain players will consistently be at the bad side of the RNG. so if the devs are trying to create an experience consistent for each person (not across everyone), they will either use vegas methods of controlling the odds to ensure a certain amount of good and bad per the individual game itself, or shy away from using the RNG excessively.

    to simplify the explanation of this phenomena, a computers RNG is like loaded dice, that randomly favor a number, at a random time, and for a random number of rolls. casual play DnD play would be unlikely to to expose this, and it would seem like normal die. except that as it is highly unlikely to get 20 20s in a row normally with dice, these dice would be far more probable to do such (but still very rare). as a result any DM who knew how the dice worked would not allow such dice to be used.

  3. #13
    Archmage of the Inner Ring ampoliros's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1,662
    Quote Originally Posted by Troy_Costisick View Post
    AD&D was a total trainwreck.
    (taken from another thread)

    Unless I'm very much mistaken, d20 is simply the "open source" version of AD&D, so if you're saying AD&D is a trainwreck, what's that saying for the decision to use d20 in WoM?

  4. #14
    Archmage of the Outer Ring jamoecw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1,047
    Quote Originally Posted by ampoliros View Post
    (taken from another thread)

    Unless I'm very much mistaken, d20 is simply the "open source" version of AD&D, so if you're saying AD&D is a trainwreck, what's that saying for the decision to use d20 in WoM?
    technically D20 is the system used by DnD. you can have scifi stuff using D20, but it wouldn't be DnD. most of the issues has more to do with content choices of DnD than the actual D20 system itself. most of the content issues are due to conversion of ADnD material for later DnD versions.

  5. #15
    Developer Hoverdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Boat City
    Posts
    570
    Quote Originally Posted by ampoliros View Post
    (taken from another thread)

    Unless I'm very much mistaken, d20 is simply the "open source" version of AD&D, so if you're saying AD&D is a trainwreck, what's that saying for the decision to use d20 in WoM?
    Not really. d20 OGL is the open source taken from D&D 3rd edition, which came several years after AD&D. A lot of things were changed, expanded and added.
    AD&D was sometimes really counterintuitive, like THAC0 and AC "the lower the better", weird saving throw progressions, HP after seventh level, multi-classes, and so on. I wouldn't say it was a trainwreck, just a weird one.
    3rd ed. smoothed things out, made classes much more customizable, added skills for everyone (not just thieves) and a whole lot more.

    That said, my favourite cRPGs used AD&D and it worked really well back there.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ampoliros View Post
    (taken from another thread)

    Unless I'm very much mistaken, d20 is simply the "open source" version of AD&D, so if you're saying AD&D is a trainwreck, what's that saying for the decision to use d20 in WoM?
    Conflating D20 and AD&D would start a bar fight in certain quarters... Don't ever let someone from the OSR hear you say that. They are very different games and share very little in common mechanically. D20 (or D&D3.0) was a massive leap forward in game design from AD&D2e and practically rescued the tabletop RPG industry all by itself. I could write pages and pages about it, but you'd probably be better off looking it up on your own. Needless to say, my comment on AD&D has absolutely no relationship with the mechanics Worlds of Magic has chosen.
    My RPG Design and Theory Blog: http://socratesrpg.blogspot.com/

  7. #17
    THE GRAND BACKER zdsdead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    middlesbrough, UK
    Posts
    686
    Lol still play 2nd edition every week....... :-)
    Elder Dragon, Grand Chancellor x 2, Conjurer x 2, and some other type of Backer

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by zdsdead View Post
    Lol still play 2nd edition every week....... :-)
    I bet you and your friends play with a large number of house rules you and your friends have developed over time along with samplings from various supplemental materials bur none adopted whole cloth. Am I right?
    My RPG Design and Theory Blog: http://socratesrpg.blogspot.com/

  9. #19
    Adept Sorcerer
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    50
    I'm learning some d20 right now and I appreciate the increased logic and so on. As I said a fine system and a solid choice for WoM.

    But AD&D, guys, you must have no heart.
    How can anyone speak ill of AD&D?!?!?

    Fondest memories ever.
    And it gave you Ravenloft, Planescape, even good ol' Forgotten Realms.
    It's the stuff of legend.
    Folks, seriously. We are NOT having this argument

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by mastroego View Post
    I'm learning some d20 right now and I appreciate the increased logic and so on. As I said a fine system and a solid choice for WoM.

    But AD&D, guys, you must have no heart.
    How can anyone speak ill of AD&D?!?!?

    Fondest memories ever.
    And it gave you Ravenloft, Planescape, even good ol' Forgotten Realms.
    It's the stuff of legend.
    Folks, seriously. We are NOT having this argument
    Okay, this has gotten way off topic and it's mainly my fault. So, I started a thread in the off-topic section: http://forum.wastelands-interactive....4630#post74630

    Come join!

    We now return you to your regularly scheduled D20 thread that's relevant to Worlds of Magic...

    Peace,

    -Troy
    My RPG Design and Theory Blog: http://socratesrpg.blogspot.com/

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
footer