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Thread: Spell balance thread

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by zdsdead View Post
    Raze zombie spells for example that allow you bring up raised creatures, behind enemy units. They should have a short range, maybe a few squares from your board edge, but not the enemies.
    I agree to a point. It is very powerful, but being able to summon something behind archers and mages and whatnot really balances out the hordes of ranged units some cities build. I think, perhaps, the higher the level of the spell the shorter the range should be. Zombies are easily dispatched. Giants are not.
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  2. #12
    Archmage of the Inner Ring ampoliros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy_Costisick View Post
    I agree to a point. It is very powerful, but being able to summon something behind archers and mages and whatnot really balances out the hordes of ranged units some cities build. I think, perhaps, the higher the level of the spell the shorter the range should be. Zombies are easily dispatched. Giants are not.
    Do I smell another Discipline perhaps? One to increase battle summon (or all spells) range?

  3. #13
    THE GRAND BACKER zdsdead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ampoliros View Post
    Do I smell another Discipline perhaps? One to increase battle summon (or all spells) range?
    Thats a fine idea, imho, and worth paying the point, or points, for certain styles of play
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  4. #14
    Mage of the Lesser Tower
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    Stone Skin seems too strong at +3 AC. Perhaps reduce to +2?

  5. #15
    If Prosperity had a flat bonus rather than a percentile bonus, Unhallowed players could use it. +5 to +7 gold per turn would be fair IMO. Just a thought.
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  6. #16
    Mage of the Lesser Tower
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy_Costisick View Post
    If Prosperity had a flat bonus rather than a percentile bonus, Unhallowed players could use it. +5 to +7 gold per turn would be fair IMO. Just a thought.
    1. Considering its a tier2 spell, my thoughts are that gold bonus should be +5 at most, to avoid exploiting it in early game. +4 gold feels about right.

    Raze zombie spells for example that allow you bring up raised creatures, behind enemy units. They should have a short range, maybe a few squares from your board edge, but not the enemies.
    Yeah, summons should be summonable across half the board, not anywhere on the board.

    2. Speaking of the zombies battleboard spell, it is very powerful. I think the zombies should be tanks and not DPS, as it were! In other words, they should have terrible to-hit bonus but decent defence. The player should use them as a disteraction, not as a frontline combat force. I say this because its such a low level spell. I think it's curently over-performing.

    3. Bloodletting. This is one weak spell. Minimum damage is 6 over 3 rounds, or 2 per round. With effects like that its hardly worth wasting a combat spell opportunity to cast it. I suggest you remove the saving throw and deal 4d2 over 2 rounds instead. Two rounds is long enough for the opponent to get around to healing the damage done.

    4. Darkness. This was more powerful in MoM than it is in WoM and its because of the D20 system. +1 / -1 is a small bonus in D20 terms. It's a tier3 spell and should be stronger. I suggest:
    Undead: +2 attack, +1 AC, +1 save
    Living: -1 AC, -1 save

    Leave bonus damage out of it and compensate with larger chance to hit. This makes their DPS curve more predictable, making the spell more useful while limiting the margin for unexpected amounts of burst / critical damage. Letting the living keep their attack rolls helps balance the spell out.

    5. Heal: This should be usable on both friendly units and enemy undead units. It should deal positive energy damage to undead, with a Fort saving throw for half damage.

    6. Holy weapon: just wanted to make sure that double damage is calculated BEFORE critical multiplier? If not, then it'd be too strong.

    7. Keen edge: this is a very strong tier1 spell! I seem to crit all the time when I use it. It's especially strong in the hands of draconian spellslingers, as they can cast it on their pals. Maybe I've just been lucky but perhaps it is critting TOO much?

    8. Psionic blast: I'd suggest that the target gets -1 will save even if they make their saving throw against psionic blast. This is because the spell does tiny damage if they make their save, and the player needs more incentive to actually use the spell.

    9. Walking Bomb deals too much damage for a tier1 spell and 8 casting cost, I think. I'm aware there's a tactical constraint (in that the target has to die for it to work) but the damage it deals is equivalent to fireball, a tier3 spell with 20 casting cost! I'd suggest the following:
    Walking bomb: casting cost 12, 2d6 explosion
    damage when it dies. Target has -1 to saving throws while spell is active due to sense of impending doom.

    This reduces the explosion damage but reduces saving throws so the target is easier to kill once Walking Bomb is cast on it.

    10. Wither wings: I kinda feel like this spell should be turning fliers into walkers, not messing with their rolls. It's a cheap, tier1 spell but reducing an enemy flier's rolls doesn't help your footsoldiers kill it. Web is tier3 and much more expensive plus no saving throw. Further, wither wings is nullified if they make their saving throw! How about:
    Wither wings: Cost 15. Withers a targets' wings, giving -1 penalty to attack rolls and armor class. If the target fails their saving throw, unit can't fly for the remainder of the battle.

    This makes it a spell that the player can be sure will at least reduce the fliers' attack rolls and AC, but there's a chance it'll make it a walker as well. That's a gamble worth 15 mana in the early game.

    11. Wind blast: move the target 1 square backwards only, as the tactical advantage of moving them any further is too great for a tier2 spell imo. This guarantees that an enemy will spend at least 1 movement point getting back near you.

    12. Slaveworks: This is too powerful in the very early game. I'd like to see its cost increased so that it's not spammable. It's a bargain at 30 mana.
    Slaveworks: Casting cost 70, city loses 360 pop and receives 100 production.

    This also helps keep the spell relevant in the late game.

    13. Gangrene: A tier 1 spell that stops you healing for 5 turns seems a bit too powerful. Perhaps 2 or 3 turns?

    More to come!
    Last edited by Yco; 01-20-2015 at 09:36 PM.

  7. #17
    Developer Hoverdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yco View Post
    Stone Skin seems too strong at +3 AC. Perhaps reduce to +2?
    Reasonable. Anyone else has an opinion on this?

    3. Bloodletting. This is one weak spell. Minimum damage is 6 over 3 rounds, or 2 per round. With effects like that its hardly worth wasting a combat spell opportunity to cast it. I suggest you remove the saving throw and deal 4d2 over 2 rounds instead. Two rounds is long enough for the opponent to get around to healing the damage done.
    Most direct damage spells are severly underpowered right now, I am going to balance them out somewhat. Hopefully I'll manage to do it this week.


    2. Speaking of the zombies battleboard spell, it is very powerful. I think the zombies should be tanks and not DPS, as it were! In other words, they should have terrible to-hit bonus but decent defence. The player should use them as a disteraction, not as a frontline combat force. I say this because its such a low level spell. I think it's curently over-performing.
    That was actually the plan. Zombies have above average HP, but low AC and deal less damage than Spearmen or other starting-tier units. Are their offensive capabilities too high?

    speaking of which: if anyone wants to help with balancing summoned creatures, I can send them the xml files with every summon added. Obviously they will use models already existing in the build. They also won't appear as guardians in world features (at least in current build), so it'll be a bit trickier.

  8. #18
    Mage of the Lesser Tower
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoverdog View Post
    That was actually the plan. Zombies have above average HP, but low AC and deal less damage than Spearmen or other starting-tier units. Are their offensive capabilities too high?
    I find that they hit like a truck, fairly reliably. Wouldn't mind hearing other people's views on it though. Maybe give them mundane resistance of 1, but reduce their hit bonus?

    It could be that being able to summon them right behind enemy archers is giving me the impression they're OP.

    speaking of which: if anyone wants to help with balancing summoned creatures, I can send them the xml files with every summon added. Obviously they will use models already existing in the build. They also won't appear as guardians in world features (at least in current build), so it'll be a bit trickier.
    I wouldn't mind taking a look, if it'd help.

    Upkeep:
    Another thought I had was about spell upkeep costs; how about making the maintenance cost of a spell equal to 1*SpellTier? That'd make things a bit more uniform and easier to balance.

    E.g. flaming weapon has 1 upkeep and its a tier2 spell. Flight has 4 and its a tier4 spell.
    Last edited by Yco; 01-19-2015 at 03:00 PM.

  9. #19
    Developer Hoverdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yco View Post
    I find that they hit like a truck, fairly reliably. Wouldn't mind hearing other people's views on it though. Maybe give them mundane resistance of 1, but reduce their hit bonus?
    They have +2 to hit and deal 1d6+2 damage, which is less than spearman's +2/1d8+2. Resistance doesn't fit thematically (a ghost or a rock can have resistance, not a mass of rotting flesh).

    It could be that being able to summon them right behind enemy archers is giving me the impression they're OP.
    that could be it, archers aren't known for their resilience.



    Upkeep:
    Another thought I had was about spell upkeep costs; how about making the maintenance cost of a spell equal to 1*SpellTier? That'd make things a bit more uniform and easier to balance.
    That's, well, too easy. Enchantments that work on a single target, even if powerful, should cost much less than globals. Not to mention specific cases, like Time Stop.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoverdog View Post
    They have +2 to hit and deal 1d6+2 damage, which is less than spearman's +2/1d8+2. Resistance doesn't fit thematically (a ghost or a rock can have resistance, not a mass of rotting flesh).
    Perhaps +0 to hit? They're zombies after all.

    That's, well, too easy. Enchantments that work on a single target, even if powerful, should cost much less than globals. Not to mention specific cases, like Time Stop.
    Fair enough, I hadn't considered it that way. I just noticed that, for example, freezing weapon is T1 and 1 mana, while flaming weapon is T2 and 1 mana. Without knowing the internal balancing mechanisms you used, it could be right or wrong! So I'll leave spell costs out of my analyses for now.
    Last edited by Yco; 01-19-2015 at 03:50 PM.

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