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Thread: Race & Unit Balance Thread

  1. #31
    Archmage of the Outer Ring jamoecw's Avatar
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    i think i suggested having certain units have a 'large shield' with bonuses like a tower shield. which at low levels should make a big difference against ranged units (+4AC), and at higher levels a big difference against most spell damage (half damage from cover). having crossbowmen use a pavise (large shield bonus) would make them an anti-archer archer. also i don't know if the resistances have made it in (wiki states the skelies will get some resistance to piercing which if memory serves this would most applicable to ranged attacks), and if they do have lower attack values then they will get outclassed by most anti-archer stuff. all of this would help counter the archer threat fairly early in the game. innate damage and attack bonuses with the crossbow would be in keeping with the item level progression of a level 3 character in D&D to help compensate for the slower fire rate.

    i'd like to help with actual playtime, but my schedule currently prohibits that.

  2. #32
    Ok, I've spent a lot of time over the last couple days going through and playing all the races again. Overall, I think the Wastelands team has done an excellent job of creating and balancing these faction. Thumbs up, guys! They are a lot of fun to play. I do have a few suggestions for each, but they're rather small in the big scheme of things:

    ---On the World Map---

    -High Men seem to be too weak on gold production. Either they should get a little more gold from various terrain types or their citizens should produce a little more.

    -Grey Elves, Draconians, and Orcs are all fine the way they are.

    -Unhallowed need greater negative energy production OR lower upkeeps on their buildings and units. They are extraordinarily difficult to play, especially on planes other than the Plane of Shadow.

    -Dwarves do not have enough production points per citizen for a builder race. Either the production costs for their buildings and units should be reduced some or the amount of production they get out of workers should be increased.

    ---One the Battleboard---

    -High Men: Crossbowmen used to bee way too over powered. Now I think they are too weak. I'd like to see them hit a little harder.

    -Grey Elves and Orcs: these are fine the way they are.

    -Dwarves: There have been lots of threads on this, so I'm just going to echo them only in part- Hammerhands should have a larger critical threat range and golems should have Reach. Other than that, they're great.

    Thanks for creating such a fun game, guys. I've really enjoyed it so far.

    Peace,

    -Troy
    My RPG Design and Theory Blog: http://socratesrpg.blogspot.com/

  3. #33
    The Draconian Fishery should probably require the Sawmill in order to be built.
    My RPG Design and Theory Blog: http://socratesrpg.blogspot.com/

  4. #34
    Djinn, Efreets, Marrids, and Fire Drakes should all get a magical ranged attack IMO. They are too easy to kill from a distance using casters.
    My RPG Design and Theory Blog: http://socratesrpg.blogspot.com/

  5. #35
    Mage of the Lesser Tower
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy_Costisick View Post
    Djinn, Efreets, Marrids, and Fire Drakes should all get a magical ranged attack IMO. They are too easy to kill from a distance using casters.
    I disagree. I find their spellcasting augments them quite a lot. Also efreets can teleport right up to Enemy units.

    I do think that drake mobility is not that great though. I tried using one in an arena and it mobed once, never to move again. Would have to replicate this bug to prove it though.

  6. #36
    The problem is, I can back with grey mages or skalds or hecuvas or whatever and kill these guys easily from a distance. They need a way to attack my units without having to move into melee range. Yes, Marrids and Efreets are very good spell casters, but I can ignore most of what they do and just kill them with arrows or magic bolts.
    My RPG Design and Theory Blog: http://socratesrpg.blogspot.com/

  7. #37
    Mage of the Lesser Tower
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    The elven rangers' point blank shot seems to have much too large a range: it works within 5 squares. Perhaps change this to 2 or 3 squares (for all units that have point blank shot, not just the rangers, actually).

  8. #38
    Adept Sorcerer
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    I have spent over 30 hours play testing the unhallowed, and I must say they really have the odds stacked against them.

    Constant war combined with impaired ability to expand (outside the shadow plane) results in always being outpaced by everyone else. Unhallowed can freely found cities in only one plane vs every other race that can freely found cities in all "but" one plane. Spreading corruption is VERY time and resource consuming.

    No gold productions means no coin for hero upkeep. Major disadvantage.

    Units and buildings requiring the same resource for upkeep prevents you from building an effective sized army as well as slowing your ability to build up your city.

    Primary element is negative energy, but since you start on the shadow plane where many inhabitants are immune to negative energy, your ability to conquer dungeons and defend your cities is limited.

    So to sum up:
    War with everyone, extremely slow expansion, small army, no gold, no heroes, can't afford buildings, and the only plane they can freely expand on is full of monsters they can't defend against.

    In my humble opinion, they don't just need "tweaking", they need a serious overhaul.

    My suggestions:
    1. Have them produce and use gold just like every other race. This would alleviate the shortage of negative energy, enable them to afford the upkeep on buildings, and make hiring and paying upkeep on heroes possible.
    2. Allow them to get "some" benefit from non-corrupted land. That would at least let a newly founded city limp along until you can spend the enormous amount of time and resources to corrupt all the land around it.
    3. Make the attacks from their magical ranged units ANYTHING but negative energy. Generic magical essence, I don't really care. I just know that I loose cities to wandering werewolves all the time.

    Hope this input helps and thanks for reading.

  9. #39
    Thanks for all the feedback guys!

    Fortigan, I appreciate the observations. We're still tweaking the unhallowed. Hopefully we'll be able to get some of the changes in place soon. Once those are in place I think you'll find them easier to use. (However, I do see your point about the Huecuva using negative energy. Let me give it a mull.)
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  10. #40
    Adept Sorcerer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    Thanks for all the feedback guys!

    Fortigan, I appreciate the observations. We're still tweaking the unhallowed. Hopefully we'll be able to get some of the changes in place soon. Once those are in place I think you'll find them easier to use. (However, I do see your point about the Huecuva using negative energy. Let me give it a mull.)
    Sorry for pushing this so much. I have a soft spot for this race in particular and really want them to be competitive. They are the only race I have yet to win with on moderate difficulty. I'll spend some more time on them today and see if I'm just approaching their "play style" incorrectly. I'm sure I "can" win with them, I just need to come up with the right formula.

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