Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: [Balance issue] Alchemy + Merchant + Ascetic

  1. #1
    Neophyte Sorcerer
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    32

    [Balance issue] Alchemy + Merchant + Ascetic

    As many know, there's a "must pick" combination when choosing a sorcerer lord, that of Alchemy, Merchant, and Ascetic. A brief run-down of how it works:

    Merchant boosts gold income a lot.
    Ascetic limits gold stored to 1000 at any given time.
    Alchemy allows for free conversion between mana and gold (100% rate).

    Merchant is good but not OP, the real problem is the other two, when combined - Ascetic and Alchemy. Alchemy basically means that in exchange for a little micro, you can avoid the negative effects of Ascetic. And Ascetic gives a big +3 to your sorcerer lord picks, so something that negates it is going to unbalance things.

    What are some peoples' ideas about how to fix this situation? Alchemy loses its flavor if it's nerfed, but perhaps the bonus picks for choosing Ascetic should be reduced from +3 to +1? Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Well, with Ascetic, you can't buy the nice items from Inns, and you can't buy the higher-level buildings in cities. Indeed, with Ascetic, you can't even hire most of the Titans, which are pretty handy to have around. Making it +2 instead of +3 would be fine, but +1 is a little low. Maybe drop the ceiling for gold from 1000 to 250, so you can't even buy the nicer units, either? Can't drop it much lower than that, since you'd need to leave a SL with at least enough money to be able to afford to hire the heroes who drop by from time to time. EDIT: Forgot to say, you could also always limit the mana stockpile as well. Make both gold and mana limit to 500, and suddenly +3 doesn't look all that generous after all ^_^

    Alchemy, I've said before elsewhere, should cost 2 picks, or even 3. To make it a tiny bit less painful, it should also, like in Master of Magic, give you an Alchemist's Guild in your capital city at game start. If it gave the whole tree up to Alch (Sage's Guild plus Library) then it would be worth three picks, I think.

    Merchant was 2 gold per population for a while in WoM. *That* was OP And your "must pick" doesn't include Warlord? I quarrel with you. Warlord is the second-best one point perk in the game...after Alchemy XD

  3. #3
    Mage’s Assistant
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    149
    Nah, the must pick is Mentalism(10)+Mastery, with Alchemy & Butcher.

    You lay down Tranquility when you start, pump up the tax rate. And once you get the later tiered city buff spells you'll be cranking out insane amounts of money, production and research in no time.

    Being able to save up on mana income investment and focusing solely on Casting Power is a huge boon. I can't stress enough how getting your casting skill high as fast as possible is a huge asset to have. With Alchemy it's really easy to put extra point in casting power without any true drawbacks.

    Foregoing to invest in casting power makes it so that later tiered strategic spells take multiple turns to cast, and tactical spells well, you don't have a large pool of mana to cast from.
    If you like hardware, games, design and discuss anything video game related. Please come join me on my facebook page. I also showcase my existing, and upcoming Computer Build Logs! https://goo.gl/V2JEJW

  4. #4
    Neophyte Sorcerer
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by OneFiercePuppy View Post
    Well, with Ascetic, you can't buy the nice items from Inns, and you can't buy the higher-level buildings in cities. Indeed, with Ascetic, you can't even hire most of the Titans, which are pretty handy to have around
    That's an excellent point; I didn't consider titans and such.

    Quote Originally Posted by OneFiercePuppy View Post
    Forgot to say, you could also always limit the mana stockpile as well. Make both gold and mana limit to 500, and suddenly +3 doesn't look all that generous after all ^_^
    And I think this is a great idea. Though, 500 might actually be a bit small. Maybe 1000 for each? Or, perhaps only have this restriction kick in if Alchemy is picked as well?

    Quote Originally Posted by OneFiercePuppy View Post
    Alchemy, I've said before elsewhere, should cost 2 picks, or even 3. To make it a tiny bit less painful, it should also, like in Master of Magic, give you an Alchemist's Guild in your capital city at game start. If it gave the whole tree up to Alch (Sage's Guild plus Library) then it would be worth three picks, I think.
    Actually in MoM it didn't do that; it simply enchanted all built units' weapons, while still not granting access to Mithril/Adamantium. It was the only way you could get auto-weapon-enchanted Trolls, for example. But I like your suggestion - 2 picks and a lone-standing Alchemist's Guild, just not with the build tree and 3 picks (that becomes a little too much "pick more to build early" which isn't how most of these abilities are supposed to work, right?)

    Quote Originally Posted by OneFiercePuppy View Post
    Merchant was 2 gold per population for a while in WoM. *That* was OP And your "must pick" doesn't include Warlord? I quarrel with you. Warlord is the second-best one point perk in the game...after Alchemy XD
    Oh, for sure Warlord is a must-pick for me - though not for all, as MedievalNerd shows. But I wasn't addressing other builds or combos, just this one. Good though Warlord is, it doesn't have any direct interaction with the combo I mentioned in the OP.
    Last edited by Azdgari; 06-08-2016 at 05:11 AM.

  5. #5
    Mage’s Assistant
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    149
    There are many paths to greatness. But when you find some converging ones you sure can reap the stacked benefits.

    If you like Warlord, consider getting either Mentalism or Life magic. So that you can combine it with the Crusades spell!
    If you like hardware, games, design and discuss anything video game related. Please come join me on my facebook page. I also showcase my existing, and upcoming Computer Build Logs! https://goo.gl/V2JEJW

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Azdgari View Post
    Actually in MoM it didn't do that; it simply enchanted all built units' weapons, while still not granting access to Mithril/Adamantium.
    Argh, yeah. Not that you need to be told you're right, but...you're right. No idea why I remembered it so clearly as giving an Alch Guild. Meh. I blame the cocaine.

    I never did any, but I blame it, anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by MedievalNerd View Post
    If you like Warlord, consider getting either Mentalism or Life magic. So that you can combine it with the Crusades spell!
    Heck yeah. Warlord plus Crusade plus Charm of Life means you field Doom Drake units with almost 600 health. Paltry little Spearmen tip 200. That's a heck of an army

    Personally, I still prefer creating a rainbow mage and picking up all the circles from world features, but that's just because I derive an obsessive pleasure in early-game expansion. Beat my last 2-plane game in 37 turns. Must...expand...faster!
    Last edited by OneFiercePuppy; 06-08-2016 at 06:20 AM.

  7. #7
    I have been saying for a while that alchemy needs to be nerfed to 1.5:1 bonus from 2:1, whereas it is 1:1 at the moment.
    ascetic is a pain in the butt! having to convert the money all the time. I don't like it! Nerf it to +2 bonus!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
footer