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Thread: One Fierce Puppy - Need your help (your explanations are awesome and noob friendly)

  1. #1

    One Fierce Puppy - Need your help (your explanations are awesome and noob friendly)

    First,
    I have to say you have some impressive explanations. I really appreciate the enlightenment you've provided me with on some of the stuff I've read in these forums that you responded to.

    And so, if you choose to help, i will place a link to the steam forums since it is a heavy dialogue of back and forth, it will come across discombobulated if I copy and paste it here.

    Start from the 4th post, the gamer tag "Stategize then Actualize" read from there down as every response is towards me. This is regarding my dull lightbulb when it comes to the understanding of "dice rolls, armor class, save throws" and some other nuances which escape me.

    http://steamcommunity.com/app/449300...3054115093463/

    Your help would be greatly appreciated. Respond when you'd like of course this is at your convinience if you accept.

  2. #2
    Oof. You've asked quite a few questions in that thread. Let me start with a tl;dr - Planar Conquest is based off a rule set that Wizards of the Coast created. It's called Open d20, based on WotC's d20 system. If you really want to get the details, then you should check out the website http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35 and just go to town on the reference material. That said, I'll try to answer your questions as briefly as possible while still giving you the details you need.

    You ask several questions about saving throws. In brief, there are two major combat mechanics in d20 - attacking something directly (sword, arrow, wand, etc), or attacking something indirectly (magic spell, special ability like a basilisk's stoning gaze, etc). Direct attacks are protected against by armor (Armor Class); indirect attacks are protected against by saving throws (Reflex, Will, Fortitude). The type of indirect attack determines what saving throw is applied. Elves are classically quick and frail, thus they tend to do well on Reflex saving throws but poorly on Fortitude saving throws. So throwing a ball of fire at them, they can maybe duck or dodge, and they make a Reflex saving throw. But attacking their well-being by surrounding them in dark energy (Spit of Bile, for example), they don't do so well with, because they're not too tough. Dwarves tend to be the opposite.

    Die rolls. The core mechanic of d20 is random die rolls. XdY+Z is the general format. X = number of die to roll. Y = sides on the die. Z = additional modifier. 2d6+4 gives a range of (2-12)+4, or 6 to 16. d3-1 gives a range of 0-2.

    What does Armor Class actually do? When a unit attacks, it rolls "to hit". I'd like to refer you to an explanation I gave on antoher page to save typing time, if you don't mind. http://forum.wastelands-interactive....critical-range

    Effects of Berserk Fury. Berserk Fury doubles your damage done, so your archers (1d8 damage from their bows) would do (1d8)x2 damage if they hit. It also increases the damage received by 50%, so if you would normally take 10 damage from an attack, you take 15.

    Good enough, or need more?

    EDIT: Oh, Difficulty Class. DC is essentially the attack roll for an indirect attack. For a normal attack, you would roll d20 and add your hit bonus, then compare that roll to the target's Armor Class. DC, used for indirect attacks (as I described above) is the value you compare to the target's relevant save. A weak spell like Flame Arrow, early on, might have a DC of 12. Flame Arrow is defended by Reflex save. You roll a d20 and add your Reflex bonus to that - if you have a +2, then you'd need to roll a 10 or better, giving you a 55% chance to resist the spell in some way. Spell description will tell you what the effects of a successful saving throw are - in the case of Flame Arrow, you take half damage. Just to make things more complicated, some units (a lot, frankly, in Planar Conquest) have Evasion, so if they make their save, they get an extra bonus; they take no damage, instead of half. A well-boosted Wrack, later in the game, might have a DC of 29. Wrack is defended against by fortitude. If you had a Fortitude bonus of 9, you'd need to roll a 20 to succeed. 5% chance.

    SECOND EDIT: Huh, that WotC page no longer works. Sorry to give you a bad link. I'll leave it there just in case it's a temporary thing. It used to work, as recently as a couple months ago.
    Last edited by OneFiercePuppy; 07-16-2016 at 03:15 AM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by OneFiercePuppy View Post
    Oof. You've asked quite a few questions in that thread. Let me start with a tl;dr - Planar Conquest is based off a rule set that Wizards of the Coast created. It's called Open d20, based on WotC's d20 system. If you really want to get the details, then you should check out the website http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35 and just go to town on the reference material. That said, I'll try to answer your questions as briefly as possible while still giving you the details you need.

    You ask several questions about saving throws. In brief, there are two major combat mechanics in d20 - attacking something directly (sword, arrow, wand, etc), or attacking something indirectly (magic spell, special ability like a basilisk's stoning gaze, etc). Direct attacks are protected against by armor (Armor Class); indirect attacks are protected against by saving throws (Reflex, Will, Fortitude). The type of indirect attack determines what saving throw is applied. Elves are classically quick and frail, thus they tend to do well on Reflex saving throws but poorly on Fortitude saving throws. So throwing a ball of fire at them, they can maybe duck or dodge, and they make a Reflex saving throw. But attacking their well-being by surrounding them in dark energy (Spit of Bile, for example), they don't do so well with, because they're not too tough. Dwarves tend to be the opposite.

    Die rolls. The core mechanic of d20 is random die rolls. XdY+Z is the general format. X = number of die to roll. Y = sides on the die. Z = additional modifier. 2d6+4 gives a range of (2-12)+4, or 6 to 16. d3-1 gives a range of 0-2.

    What does Armor Class actually do? When a unit attacks, it rolls "to hit". I'd like to refer you to an explanation I gave on antoher page to save typing time, if you don't mind. http://forum.wastelands-interactive....critical-range

    Effects of Berserk Fury. Berserk Fury doubles your damage done, so your archers (1d8 damage from their bows) would do (1d8)x2 damage if they hit. It also increases the damage received by 50%, so if you would normally take 10 damage from an attack, you take 15.

    Good enough, or need more?

    EDIT: Oh, Difficulty Class. DC is essentially the attack roll for an indirect attack. For a normal attack, you would roll d20 and add your hit bonus, then compare that roll to the target's Armor Class. DC, used for indirect attacks (as I described above) is the value you compare to the target's relevant save. A weak spell like Flame Arrow, early on, might have a DC of 12. Flame Arrow is defended by Reflex save. You roll a d20 and add your Reflex bonus to that - if you have a +2, then you'd need to roll a 10 or better, giving you a 55% chance to resist the spell in some way. Spell description will tell you what the effects of a successful saving throw are - in the case of Flame Arrow, you take half damage. Just to make things more complicated, some units (a lot, frankly, in Planar Conquest) have Evasion, so if they make their save, they get an extra bonus; they take no damage, instead of half. A well-boosted Wrack, later in the game, might have a DC of 29. Wrack is defended against by fortitude. If you had a Fortitude bonus of 9, you'd need to roll a 20 to succeed. 5% chance.

    SECOND EDIT: Huh, that WotC page no longer works. Sorry to give you a bad link. I'll leave it there just in case it's a temporary thing. It used to work, as recently as a couple months ago.
    This is wonderful!!!

    I'll take my time reading it (thanks for being fast, was not expecting response today)


    Regarding your question, I think it's enough, of course (as you've seen how my mind works with all this) need some time to ingest it without going full sensory overload. What I will do in the meantime, YouTube some of the examples/terms you've used and see if I can find visual representation of some things in action - that will help the dummy in me understand better.

    I GREATLY appreciate your input. Don't know if you're aware, but your stock value will go up TREMENDOUSLY once this game releases on console with multiplayer. Prepare for that. Lol. Thanks man.

    ---------- Post added 07-16-2016 at 12:37 AM ---------- Previous post was 07-15-2016 at 11:45 PM ----------

    UPDATE: (I knew the dummy in me would find something)

    Here is one that confuses me. I think if I can clear this one up, it will open the door for me to understanding many spells that share this representation of damage output in its description.

    Spit of Bile. It says:
    Damage: 8d8 negative energy
    (Quick side question: is negative energy an affect? What does it do)

    Anyways, moving on to main issue... I have no idea what the damage portion of 8d8 is?

    Because of your wonderful explanation, I understand:
    The first 8 means (I'm rolling eight dice)
    The second 8 means (Eight sided dice)

    But that's it, that's all I compute from that. Where is the damage number?

    Of course (If I'm getting it right) should one of the units on the battlefield cast Spit of Bile, I look in their attributes for damage output modifier and use that for answer.

    However, what if I (The Sorcerer Lord) casts the spell? Your Sorcerer Lord doesn't have a character screen showing how much damage he outputs? (Or is there one?)


    Last, is there a chart that I should google which shows how damage is read per landed roll (when no damage modifiers exist)?

    I think this is what's confusing me into the Seven Hells in Game of Thrones, that I don't understand how damage is read. I now understand that 2d20 means, two dice each with twenty sides. Congrats to me..
    Last edited by Lost_in_Tactics; 07-16-2016 at 05:42 AM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Lost_in_Tactics View Post
    Here is one that confuses me. I think if I can clear this one up, it will open the door for me to understanding many spells that share this representation of damage output in its description.

    Spit of Bile. It says:
    Damage: 8d8 negative energy
    (Quick side question: is negative energy an affect? What does it do)

    Anyways, moving on to main issue... I have no idea what the damage portion of 8d8 is?

    Where is the damage number?
    Sum the dice. 8d8 is 8x(1-8) giving a damage range of 8-64.

    Negative energy is a damage type. There are several types of damage; dividing them up into types allows units to resist certain things.

    Mundane (piercing, slashing, bludgeoning)
    Magical (a modifier to the previous three)
    Arcane, Fire, Frost, Lightning, Acid, Poison - probably something I'm forgetting but am in a rush this morning
    Positive (heals living, damages undead)
    Negative (heals undead, damages living)

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by OneFiercePuppy View Post
    Sum the dice. 8d8 is 8x(1-8) giving a damage range of 8-64.

    Negative energy is a damage type. There are several types of damage; dividing them up into types allows units to resist certain things.

    Mundane (piercing, slashing, bludgeoning)
    Magical (a modifier to the previous three)
    Arcane, Fire, Frost, Lightning, Acid, Poison - probably something I'm forgetting but am in a rush this morning
    Positive (heals living, damages undead)
    Negative (heals undead, damages living)
    Ok now... finally! Some shards of understanding penetrate. So multiplying is the answer. Excellent!


    Not over yet my friend. Now I understand:
    4d4 damage range is 1-20


    Here's where I'm stumbling:
    VISUAL EXAMPLE:
    {4d4 Acid Arrow} No modifiers
    Roll1: (landed 1) 4x1 = 4
    Roll2: (landed 2) 4x2 = 6
    Roll3: (landed 3) 4x3 = 12
    Roll4: (landed 4) 4x4 = 20


    Which of those four rolls above become the damage?
    Out my four rolls, is the highest numerical chosen to sum up for damage?

  6. #6
    No. 4d4 means roll 4 dice, each of which have four sides. The possible damage range is 4-16, not 1-20.

    say you roll 2,4,1,3. That sums to 10, and is roughly the average result of 4d4.
    4,4,4,4. Sums to 16. That's the highest you could roll.
    1,1,1,1. Sums to 4. That's the lowest you could roll.

    Chain Lightning. 5d20 electricity damage.
    1,1,1,1,1. Sums to 5. This is the minimum damage roll.
    20,20,20,20,20. Sums to 100. This is the maximum damage roll.

    So now, an example with Chain Lightning using everything I've told you so far this thread.
    You cast Chain Lightning on an enemy army of two Wights, a Banshee, a Zombie, and a Vampire. Chain Lightning does 5d20 to the first target, then 1 die less for each subsequent target. You cast Chain Lightning with a DC of 25. You target the Banshee. Here's what happens.

    -The Banshee rolls a Reflex saving throw (because in the spell description, you can see that the save for Chain Lightning is Reflex). This means they get a result of 1-20, and add their Reflex bonus to it. Say for this example the Banshee has a Reflex bonus of +6. The Banshee rolls a 14, which modifies to 20. 20 is less than the spell DC of 25, so the Banshee fails its save. The Banshee takes 5d20 damage. 5d20 rolls 14, 8, 12, 19, 3. The Banshee takes 56 damage.
    -Chain Lightning then bounces to the Vampire. The Vampire rolls a Reflex save, rolls a 19, and adds its bonus (let's say it's +10) for 29. The Vampire passes its save. Chain Lightning normally does half damage when the saving throw is made (see spell description) but there's a special case - Vampires have Evasion and take no damage when they pass a Reflex save. The Vampire takes no damage.
    -Chain Lightning then bounces a second time, targetting a Wight. The Wight rolls a Reflex save and with bonus gets a 9. 9 is lower than the spell DC of 25, so the Wight takes full damage. Chain Lightning has bounced two times and lost two dice of damage, so the Wight takes 3d20. Damage roll is 5, 9, 1. Wight would normally take 15 damage, but the Wight has had a spell cast upon it that reduces all elemental damage by 10. Electricity is an elemental damage type in Planar Conquest, so the damage reduction takes place after the damage is rolled, but before the damage is done. 15 - 10 is 5. Wight takes 5 damage.
    -Chain Lightning bounces to the next Wight. Wight rolls a Reflex save and with bonus gets 25. 25 is the same as the spell DC, so the Wight passes the save. This is the third bounce, so Chain Lightning has lost three dice of damage. Damage roll is 18, 20. Normally this would be 38 damage, but the Wight passed its save and takes half. Half of 38 is 19.
    -Chain Lightning finally bounces to the Zombie, which rolls a Reflex save of 2 (Zombies are hella slow). Chain Lightning does 1d20 damage. Damage roll is 14. Zombie takes 14 damage.
    Last edited by OneFiercePuppy; 07-17-2016 at 11:47 AM. Reason: typos

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by OneFiercePuppy View Post
    No. 4d4 means roll 4 dice, each of which have four sides. The possible damage range is 4-16, not 1-20.

    say you roll 2,4,1,3. That sums to 10, and is roughly the average result of 4d4.
    4,4,4,4. Sums to 16. That's the highest you could roll.
    1,1,1,1. Sums to 4. That's the lowest you could roll.

    Chain Lightning. 5d20 electricity damage.
    1,1,1,1,1. Sums to 5. This is the minimum damage roll.
    20,20,20,20,20. Sums to 100. This is the maximum damage roll.

    So now, an example with Chain Lightning using everything I've told you so far this thread.
    You cast Chain Lightning on an enemy army of two Wights, a Banshee, a Zombie, and a Vampire. Chain Lightning does 5d20 to the first target, then 1 die less for each subsequent target. You cast Chain Lightning with a DC of 25. You target the Banshee. Here's what happens.

    -The Banshee rolls a Reflex saving throw (because in the spell description, you can see that the save for Chain Lightning is Reflex). This means they get a result of 1-20, and add their Reflex bonus to it. Say for this example the Banshee has a Reflex bonus of +6. The Banshee rolls a 14, which modifies to 20. 20 is less than the spell DC of 25, so the Banshee fails its save. The Banshee takes 5d20 damage. 5d20 rolls 14, 8, 12, 19, 3. The Banshee takes 56 damage.
    -Chain Lightning then bounces to the Vampire. The Vampire rolls a Reflex save, rolls a 19, and adds its bonus (let's say it's +10) for 29. The Vampire passes its save. Chain Lightning normally does half damage when the saving throw is made (see spell description) but there's a special case - Vampires have Evasion and take no damage when they pass a Reflex save. The Vampire takes no damage.
    -Chain Lightning then bounces a second time, targetting a Wight. The Wight rolls a Reflex save and with bonus gets a 9. 9 is lower than the spell DC of 25, so the Wight takes full damage. Chain Lightning has bounced two times and lost two dice of damage, so the Wight takes 3d20. Damage roll is 5, 9, 1. Wight would normally take 15 damage, but the Wight has had a spell cast upon it that reduces all elemental damage by 10. Electricity is an elemental damage type in Planar Conquest, so the damage reduction takes place after the damage is rolled, but before the damage is done. 15 - 10 is 5. Wight takes 5 damage.
    -Chain Lightning bounces to the next Wight. Wight rolls a Reflex save and with bonus gets 25. 25 is the same as the spell DC, so the Wight passes the save. This is the third bounce, so Chain Lightning has lost three dice of damage. Damage roll is 18, 20. Normally this would be 38 damage, but the Wight passed its save and takes half. Half of 38 is 19.
    -Chain Lightning finally bounces to the Zombie, which rolls a Reflex save of 2 (Zombies are hella slow). Chain Lightning does 1d20 damage. Damage roll is 14. Zombie takes 14 damage.
    yea, I meant 1-16 (I was multiplying 4x5=20 for some reason instead of 4x4=16)

    I was caught up in this part of your comment:
    Quote Originally Posted by OneFiercePuppy View Post
    8d8 is 8x(1-8)
    So like a moron I'm thinking multiply every aspect - that I completely, bypassed where you said "Sum the dice" meaning "add" not "multiply" I get it now. Thank you.


    The AC, DC, ST breakdowns you expressed are pretty straight forward, I understand how it correlates with d20.

    During our entire segment of you explaining the d-system mechanics to me, I'll go back into the game, jump into arena, pull up the dice log and see how it all ties in. Alot wasn't adding up in the beginning - because I was reading it wrong. Now, it aligns perfectly. I can actually read the dice log. I am really happy, I'm no longer blind. I knew, I would get it if started dialogue with you.


    Ice Bolt
    6d6 (damage range: 1-36)
    has Cold effect (I'm guessing cold effect slows down opponent by removing a move point from the unit? But for how many turns? Doesn't specify in game) mind you I'm playing iOS version. We have alot of information missing from the spells book. Doesn't explain what an affect does... etc.

    So anyways back to Ice Bolt

    rolled: 2,2,6,1,1,3 = 15 damage

    A reflex unit uses d20 for ST, they have to roll higher than DC of ice bolt (which I don't know Ice Bolts DC) any ways, unit has +2 for reflex, that added to his roll, which turned out to not be enough to save him from the ice bolt. So he takes full damage of 15 (Do I get it now?)





    Also, Where do I find the DC of my spells? and where do I find how cold affects a unit?
    Mind you, I'm on iOS which is the 1.2.5 version of the game.
    Last edited by Lost_in_Tactics; 07-17-2016 at 04:16 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Lost_in_Tactics View Post
    Ice Bolt
    6d6 (damage range: 1-36)
    6-36.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lost_in_Tactics View Post
    (Do I get it now?)
    Pretty much, yeah
    Quote Originally Posted by Lost_in_Tactics View Post
    Also, Where do I find the DC of my spells? and where do I find how cold affects a unit?
    Cold is a damage type (see earlier post, where I called it Frost for some reason). Ice Bolt does cold-type damage. It does not have a movement-reducing effect. You should be able to see the spell DC on the spell page. Open your spellbook to cast a spell. Below the brief spell blurb you should have two columns of four entries each. The third entry in the left column should be the Saving Throw information. The word (half, negates) describes what happens when a unit makes the save. The icon in the circle shows what type of save it is (dodging figure means reflex, fist means fortitude, head means will), and in a little black circle on the type icon, there should be a number. That's the spell DC.
    Last edited by OneFiercePuppy; 07-17-2016 at 04:47 PM. Reason: typos, of course

  9. #9
    God damnit!!!!! 6-36 - you're right. Lol. I swear, I'm gonna hang myself and end it.

    Thanks. Now I can find my spell DC's. What a laborious set up this was on my mind. Finally sheesh :/

    Congrats Fierce, you literally taught a complete noob about d20 system, AC, DC, ST in 3 days. Give me your PayPal, I'm buying you a drink!

    DC: In acidic arrow spell, attached directly above the reflex icon is a black circle with number 11 in it, is this the DC location you're mentioning?


    UPDATE:
    I'm watching a new Netflix original show called "Stranger Things" and it starts off with these little kids playing D&D rolling dice to the D20 system. They understand it - took me 3 days.. Fuck me. Lol.
    Last edited by Lost_in_Tactics; 07-18-2016 at 03:26 AM.

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