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Thread: Physical Copy or Digital Download?

  1. #11
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    If I have to buy a 35 Euro game in Poland, I have to pay 21 hours of work for it.
    If I have to buy a 45 Euro game in UK, I have to pay 7 hours of the same work for it.
    It means, that games in UK are 3 times cheaper than in Poland.
    "And as the light embraces the wanderer,
    as knees bend as thought is obliterated,
    with the very moment that resistance has ceased,
    now, I am become death, the enemy of man."

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perturabo View Post
    If I have to buy a 35 Euro game in Poland, I have to pay 21 hours of work for it.
    If I have to buy a 45 Euro game in UK, I have to pay 7 hours of the same work for it.
    It means, that games in UK are 3 times cheaper than in Poland.
    It always impresses me that no one ever looks at it correctly like the way you just did.

    Games in Dollars this side of the pond are measured in hours of workload as well. And 50 Euros is fairly easy to come by around here.
    Please don't go on about how cool it is I like wargames. It gets old.
    Some of my comments are just me parroting his bitching.

  3. #13
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    I go with digital downloads at this point.

  4. #14
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    What you need todo if living in Poland is get involved in online selling or make a product you can sell abroad. That way you'd be OK, I expect your food is alot cheaper though than other places and bills and general cost of living as you'd have to 90 hours a week just to pay the rent if your rent prices where the same as here and thats for a small two bed housing association flat.

    This is also proof in point the Euro doesn't work, seems Poland would have been better off with it's old currency.

    Finally how come the Euro Union hasn't made Poland pay a minimum wage as they did here?

  5. #15
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    Since the price is only 10 buck more I always go with both. But I do not get the gamers impatience. See my rant elsewhere.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joan d'Arc View Post
    It always impresses me that no one ever looks at it correctly like the way you just did.

    Games in Dollars this side of the pond are measured in hours of workload as well. And 50 Euros is fairly easy to come by around here.
    It is because if people thought that way, there would be next to no sales of digital goods in developing countries. Generally, I consider buying digital goods by citizens of these countries to be national wealth destruction on mass scale.

    It works like that:
    We live in a rotten, mechanical world where wages are proportional to accumulation of wealth by a country and methods of distributing that wealth in society, not to the personal virtue and work ethics of the working person. A lazy uneducated worker in one country may earn more than a hard working educated person in another country solely because the first country has accumulated more wealth. Therefore wealth accumulation is one of the main tasks of developing countries.

    Sales of digital goods like games, music, movies, ebooks, etc. in developing countries are basically a modern equivalent of buying slaves, precious metals and other natural resources in Africa for glass baubles. In such case promoting a lack of sense of inherent value of ones work is a way of continuing exploitation. To realize the inherent value of ones work is to realize that one is participating in wealth destruction on a massive scale.
    It's basically sending huge amounts of ones work to the West in exchange for bits of data and pieces of plastic without inherent value. It is an exchange of more work for less work.

    In gaming magazines, there were often letters saying that game prices in Poland should be much lower because work prices are much lower. These were mocked by the magazine personnel (which is basically paid mouthpieces of the gaming industry) by asking if cars should also cost less.
    But a person buying such a digital good, doesn't buy any finite resource, but just a permission to use a copy of an infinite resource. When a car is sold, there is a finite resource which is costly to replicate over which people compete. When there's a single car and two persons, one of which accumulated more wealth and another which accumulated less wealth, it will be naturally better to sell the single car to the first person. So, there are other forces at work than just prices of work and using that example against lower prices of digital goods is simply stupid and ignorant.

    A more proper comparison would be a person trying to sell ones work. If let's say I want to sell my work in Poland, I have to sell it for 5 times lower price than in UK. Otherwise I won't sell any work. Additionally, each time I sell my work, I lose my limited time and experience unpleasant conditions of work.

    But when selling digital data, one is basically selling a permission to use a copy of infinitely and easily reproducible good. This good is so easily reproducible that there are tens of millions of people who are copying them unofficially for free.

    Armed with this knowledge, one can create a correct hierarchy of values where:
    On the top there are limited physical goods that have high reproduction costs.
    Then work which is also limited and has costs of performing.
    Finally on the bottom are the digital goods like games, music and movies.

    Such a hierarchy of values is useful when trying to avoid destruction of national wealth as it shows that one is making a big error by exchanging several times more of a limited and costly to reproduce work for a mere permission to use an easy to reproduce digital good.
    So, when seeing a 35Euro game one shouldn't be glad that it's "cheaper" but react like a Polish person during a job interview would react to a Polish candidate that expects to be paid Western minimal wage instead of a Polish minimal wage.
    That is say:
    It's either 45PLN or I'm not buying it.


    Quote Originally Posted by JasonRimmer View Post
    What you need todo if living in Poland is get involved in online selling or make a product you can sell abroad.
    Maybe one day when I'll finish the studies...

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonRimmer View Post
    That way you'd be OK, I expect your food is alot cheaper though than other places and bills and general cost of living as you'd have to 90 hours a week just to pay the rent if your rent prices where the same as here and thats for a small two bed housing association flat.
    The only thing that is a lot cheaper in Poland are the rent prices and, of course, service prices. Food prices are quickly nearing the food prices of EU. The only thing that keeps them a bit lower is that to sell them to the rest of EU, they would have to pay the cost of transporting them there.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonRimmer View Post
    This is also proof in point the Euro doesn't work, seems Poland would have been better off with it's old currency.
    Poland doesn't have Euro.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonRimmer View Post
    Finally how come the Euro Union hasn't made Poland pay a minimum wage as they did here?
    Because it would require transferring a certain amount of money from other union countries which is less convenient than using Poland as a cheap labour camp. To be honest, I'm sick of all that mechanical crap.
    Last edited by Perturabo; 08-15-2012 at 06:15 PM.
    "And as the light embraces the wanderer,
    as knees bend as thought is obliterated,
    with the very moment that resistance has ceased,
    now, I am become death, the enemy of man."

  7. #17
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    I hate to hear all that Perturabo. I was under the impression things were going fairly well in Poland, but I guess I was misled.

    I agree with your discussion about easy to duplicate programs that are just copies of the original program. I feel the same way about digital books. Digital books are sometimes more expensive than paperbacks. Why? It's crazy. Yes, you have the initial price to convert it to PDF so that it is not all screwed up looking. But I would think they could even write a program that would do that. It should be cheaper than paperback books. Although I will say I was able to buy some books very cheaply that I could never get at the same price as digitally. I bought Ben Hur for USD $1.99 or even .99. If I bought that at the bookstore or even used, it would be at the very least $5.
    Only the second person ever to be awarded the prestigious Order of the Palm Tree for gallantry against the forces of Cruelty, Arrogance, and Stupidity.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by H Gilmer View Post
    I hate to hear all that Perturabo. I was under the impression things were going fairly well in Poland, but I guess I was misled.
    We have some 13% of unemployment, with a large part of that group not having a right to unemployment benefits or any chance to get employment. There used to be 20% unemployment but it decreased because millions of people have escaped to the west.
    Things going fairly well in Poland, probably means "things not worsening as much as in other EU countries". The problem is that Poland has even lower income levels than Greece and Italy, so it doesn't really mean anything.

    Additionally, our current government loves to use deceitful propaganda - for example during the elections they were pretending that Poland is prospering under them, but just after the elections they were talking about tightening the belt, crisis and only strong surviving.
    Another thing they love to do is telling lies about how people are unemployed just because they are lazy and don't want to work and how there are lots of job offers that no one wants to take, while in reality there are tens to hundreds applications for every non-skilled job offer and often employers require years of experience in that specific job.

    Generally, IMO Platforma Obywatelska is the worst ruling party that we've ever had. They are ruthless sociopathic scum.
    I work in a family company that does estate valuation, primary for local governments and we have a lot of trouble with Platforma Obywatelska because their officials and local politicians tend to put pressure on estate valuers to give specific prices of lands and buildings so that their cronies could buy them out and tend to use legal harassment, penalties, etc. against those who don't yield to their demands.
    It was never so bad before, even during the rules of ex-communists.

    Quote Originally Posted by H Gilmer View Post
    I agree with your discussion about easy to duplicate programs that are just copies of the original program. I feel the same way about digital books. Digital books are sometimes more expensive than paperbacks. Why? It's crazy. Yes, you have the initial price to convert it to PDF so that it is not all screwed up looking. But I would think they could even write a program that would do that. It should be cheaper than paperback books. Although I will say I was able to buy some books very cheaply that I could never get at the same price as digitally. I bought Ben Hur for USD $1.99 or even .99. If I bought that at the bookstore or even used, it would be at the very least $5.
    These ebooks are more expensive because:
    1. The publishers don't want them to undercut the paper book sales.
    2. The publishers perceive them as more valuable due to their electronic form.
    Personally, I would never buy an ebook that is more expensive than a paper book.
    "And as the light embraces the wanderer,
    as knees bend as thought is obliterated,
    with the very moment that resistance has ceased,
    now, I am become death, the enemy of man."

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