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Thread: Israeli Technology Transfers to China and India: A Short Assessment

  1. #1
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    Israeli Technology Transfers to China and India: A Short Assessment

    http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...na,-india.html
    Israeli Technology Transfers to China and India: A Short Assessment


    (Source: Frost & Sullivan; issued April 28, 2003)



    It has long been speculated and not that often admitted by all parties involved that sensitive US technologies have found their way to the PRC courtesy of the Israeli aerospace & defense industry.

    If Chinese and US relations are to be the foundation of international diplomacy & stability in the 21st century, it is also important for the US that China does not acquire advanced technologies that could confer advantages over its regional neighbors, particularly Taiwan. However, Israel has long been a supplier of such technology to China.

    Such transfers of sensitive technologies have begun to materialize into concrete and advanced weapons programs that have already moderately improved the PRC's overall capabilities. The next 15 to 20 years will witness the emergence of China as a very capable regional military power. This will lead to an arms race with Japan and India primarily, the two other dominant powers in that part of the world.

    However, China is a long way from being able to challenge the US, perhaps 25 years, and still suffers from:

    --Lack of competition between defense companies, no emphasis on best product"
    --With a few exceptions, technology integration is inconsistent
    --Poor quality control
    --Lengthy weapons development cycles (15 years average)
    --Procurement cycles lacking forces integration in mind
    --Dependence on reverse engineering or foreign technology transfers
    --Disparity of equipment sources difficult to integrate together
    --Logistical deficiencies
    --Doctrinal and operational challenges


    The close defense relationship between Israel and China dates back to the mid-1980s. The Israeli MoD has several times acknowledged collaborative work with China in several areas, including the manufacture of next generation fighter aircraft. The former U.S Secretary of Defense William Perry once confronted Israeli PM Yitzhak Rabin about these technology transfer issues but Israel does not seem to have fully complied with US requests so far. US intelligence agencies have also expressed concerns about the closeness existing between Israeli and Chinese defense industries, and the possible threat that this could pose to the Asian military balance.


    Israel: what and when?

    The United States and Israel have developed a very close and lucrative partnership for the past 40 years. The Israeli air force is almost entirely equipped with US fighter aircraft and has very early on demonstrated the superiority of US systems in the many conflicts it has been fighting against its Arab opponents.

    One of the key programs undertaken by the Israeli industry in the 1980s was the IAI Lavi, an impressive fighter program built as a future replacement to the IAF A-4s, F-4s and Kfir C-2s. However, Lavi did not go anywhere; under pressure from the US, which viewed Lavi more and more as a direct market competitor to the F-16C and F-18C, coupled with budget difficulties and a recession, Israel decided to cancel the promising program in 1987.

    Systems that might have been transferred partly or in full from the Lavi to the J-10 program in the 1990s include:

    --Elta/Elisra EW System: Possible transfer to J-10, lack of data
    --Lear Siegler/MBT Flight Control System: Unknown
    --Elta EL/M-2035 Multi-Mode Pulse Doppler Radar (or EL/M-2032 derivative): Transferred to China's
    J-10 and JH-7 programs.
    --Elta ARC-740 UHF radio system: Unknown
    --IAI Tamam INS (Inertial navigation system): Transferred
    --Elbit SMS-86 Stores Management System: Unknown
    --Rafael Python 3: One of the most advanced AA missile in the world: exported to China
    --IAI Gabriel IIIAS (ASM): Likely exported; Chinese version rumored to equip the Xian Aircraft JH-7


    The Chengdu J-10 might be in production now; non-verifiable information estimates that as many as ten J-10 have been built for test and pre-operational development program. This phase of the program was completed last year. Production versions should be declared operational as early as 2004.


    Phalcon AEW: China and India both get a vote of no confidence from the US

    More recently, the US has demanded that Israel cancel the sale of the AEW Phalcon EL/M-2075 systems and plane to China. The Clinton administration categorically refused that its sophisticated D-Band C-array radar, developed by Elta be sold to the PRC. Most of the technology developed for the
    Phalcon had been approved and financed by the US Congress.

    The Chinese acquisition of an AEW capability would significantly help the PLAAF in a possible engagement against Taiwan. Apart from the J-10, weapons systems, radar systems and other advisory role played by the Israel aerospace industry, the Chinese have recently demonstrated a growing interest in UAV systems. They possibly have acquired several systems from Israel and are working on their own long range/endurance ISR platform.

    India, China's other rival in the region, has also expressed the wish to acquire Phalcon systems from Israel. However, this could have serious destabilizing effects, as it would certainly enhance the IAF capabilities against the Pakistani air force. The US veto is not final but it is very likely at this moment. India has attempted unsuccessfully to build its own indigenous AEW, with catastrophic results when the program was decapitated after the testbed HS-748 crashed during one of its test flights. India has also acquired several UAV systems from Israel, using them in various combat operations against Pakistan in the Karghil and more recently last year.

    Israeli technology transfers to China have greatly enhanced the capabilities of the Chinese industry and have saved Chinese bureaus millions of R&D man-hours.

    However, Israel is not alone, Russia and France in particular, as well as the US, have exported technology to China that may have found its way to military applications. China's main problems still resides in its inability to integrate and utilize such technologies as part of integrated concepts of operations; J-10, J-11 and J-12 might represent a major step forward for the PLAAF but using these aircraft based on Mig-21 operations will not produce significant results in the battlespace environment.
    HOGMUTT-
    Here's S'aaks new crib
    A bunch of malcontents from Whore gamer tried to start ma new forum and S'aak killed it before it got off the ground.
    How stupid do you have to be to believe this shit? It's stunning.

  2. #2
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    No comment slaak = no reply (beyond saying this that is).
    Please don't go on about how cool it is I like wargames. It gets old.
    Some of my comments are just me parroting his bitching.

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    Why the the double-standard for the Israelis?? Their list of atrocities is a mile long & the US press routinely attempts to whitewash their reports. Its outrageous that North Americans tolerate hypocrisy!
    HOGMUTT-
    Here's S'aaks new crib
    A bunch of malcontents from Whore gamer tried to start ma new forum and S'aak killed it before it got off the ground.
    How stupid do you have to be to believe this shit? It's stunning.

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    Ahh well I don't buy why the US needs to really care what China does with Taiwan. If the Chinese were to attack it in order to take it back, and the USA was to interfere, I'd be of the opinion someone in the US needs a major kick in the head. Taiwan, it's as Chinese as Hong Kong, and the Chinese would need to be insane to hurt it's use in any fashion.

    Yeah China is hardly a place I want to visit. But then again, the USA is not far ahead of China in my view of paranoid over controlled and totalitarian mentality countries. Just look at the process of going through the border into the USA and you realize no beach is worth it.

    If the Isaraelis think it is ok to sell US sourced tech to the Chinese, a people the USA is obsessed with disliking, and the USA dislikes them for doing it, then the morons in the USA should stop giving it to the Israelis. Seems a no brainer. I never give out tech in a game of Civ V to the AIs for the same reasoning. I like to know I am not shooting myself in the foot.

    I don't think the Israelis are bad for selling to whomever they wish, I think the USA is stupid for thinking the Israelis are puppets they can force to their will.
    Please don't go on about how cool it is I like wargames. It gets old.
    Some of my comments are just me parroting his bitching.

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    Ahh well I don't buy why the US needs to really care what China does with Taiwan. If the Chinese were to attack it in order to take it back, and the USA was to interfere, I'd be of the opinion someone in the US needs a major kick in the head. Taiwan, it's as Chinese as Hong Kong, and the Chinese would need to be insane to hurt it's use in any fashion.
    Joan you ignorant slut. Federalism.....the Devils Brew. So much for states rights, eh? Ask the American Indians how they feel about Federalism. I wonder how Tibet feels about the Communist party taking over Taiwan. Theyve had such a good experience with them havent they?! Nudge nudge winky winky. Fanatics need to be eradicated, not coddled.

    Yeah China is hardly a place I want to visit. But then again, the USA is not far ahead of China in my view of paranoid over controlled and totalitarian mentality countries. Just look at the process of going through the border into the USA and you realize no beach is worth it.
    Agreed. That is one of the reasons I bitch so bitterly about the trends toward Socialism in the US.

    If the Isaraelis think it is ok to sell US sourced tech to the Chinese, a people the USA is obsessed with disliking, and the USA dislikes them for doing it, then the morons in the USA should stop giving it to the Israelis. Seems a no brainer. I never give out tech in a game of Civ V to the AIs for the same reasoning. I like to know I am not shooting myself in the foot.
    Agreed. The problem is that our prostitutes in Washington DC consider everything in the US to be up for sale, including our military & strategic advantages.

    I don't think the Israelis are bad for selling to whomever they wish, I think the USA is stupid for thinking the Israelis are puppets they can force to their will.
    I consider the Irgun (Likud) to be the most dangerous gang of corrupt & evil thugs on earth and they pose a global national security threat. Theyve staged false flags to frame Moslems, aggressively spy on the US, attacked us in 1967, 1982, 2001 & possibly detonated a nuke at Fukushima last year. They refuse to cooperate with nuclear regulatory aggreements & hold the threat of nuclear blackmail over Europe and the US. The US gains absolutely no benefit from this extremely corrupt "special relationship" and its time long overdue to indict Irgun mafia-gangbangers for war crimes.
    HOGMUTT-
    Here's S'aaks new crib
    A bunch of malcontents from Whore gamer tried to start ma new forum and S'aak killed it before it got off the ground.
    How stupid do you have to be to believe this shit? It's stunning.

  6. #6
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    The results of 9-11 have been devastating for the US on multitude of economic & strategic levels but this mafia boss claims that theyve benefited greatly from it. As far as Im concerned Netanyahu owes the US countless trillions for 300+% oil inflation, 200+% food inflation & tort damages for US & Middle East deaths from immoral & illegal occupations;

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/report-n...srael-1.244044

    Report: Netanyahu says 9/11 terror attacks good for Israel


    According to Ma'ariv, Netanyahu said Israel is 'benefiting from attack' as it 'swung American public opinion.'

    The Israeli newspaper Ma'ariv on Wednesday reported that Likud leader Benjamin Netanyahu told an audience at Bar Ilan university that the September 11, 2001 terror attacks had been beneficial for Israel.

    "We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq," Ma'ariv quoted the former prime minister as saying. He reportedly added that these events "swung American public opinion in our favor."

    Netanyahu reportedly made the comments during a conference at Bar-Ilan University on the division of Jerusalem as part of a peace deal with the Palestinians.

    Meanwhile, Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad cast doubt over the veracity of the September 11 attacks Thursday, calling it a pretext to invade Afghanistan and Iraq.

    "Four or five years ago, a suspicious event occurred in New York. A building collapsed and they said that 3,000 people had been killed but never published their names," Ahmadinejad told Iranians in the holy city of Qom.

    "Under this pretext, they [the U.S.] attacked Afghanistan and Iraq and since then, a million people have been killed only in Iraq."

    Speaking Wednesday at a news conference on the Iran threat, Netanyahu compared Ahmadinejad to Adolf Hitler and likened Tehran's nuclear program to the threat the Nazis posed to Europe in the late 1930s.

    Netanyahu said Iran differed from the Nazis in one vital respect, explaining that "where that [Nazi] regime embarked on a global conflict before it developed nuclear weapons," he said. "This regime [Iran] is developing nuclear weapons before it embarks on a global conflict."
    HOGMUTT-
    Here's S'aaks new crib
    A bunch of malcontents from Whore gamer tried to start ma new forum and S'aak killed it before it got off the ground.
    How stupid do you have to be to believe this shit? It's stunning.

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    well I'll let the one comment slide, but I'm hardly ignorant Slaak dear.

    There is no comparison with Taiwan and Tibet. I agree, they have no right in Tibet, but the only reason they are not in Taiwan, is the US refused to ditch Chiang when he got chased off the mainland. Chiang lost, but he was hardly worth decades of tension any more than South Vietnam was. Given a choice of going back in time, the right choice likely would have been to let China defeat Chiang and let the world move on. If the US had not stuck it's nose into Vietnam after the French got booted out, Vietnam would have been unifed without several years of bloodshed too.

    I don't like the Chinese like I mentioned, but, I also don't think the US is far behind them in some ways as well.

    You can't just throw the world socialism around like a catch all phrase Slaak. Canada is basically socialist, and we are more free here, and our economy isn't in the round file as well. Some countries can do democracy right, and some can't, and some countries can do socialism right and some can't. The Russians invented communism, and yet they had no skill at it all the same.
    Please don't go on about how cool it is I like wargames. It gets old.
    Some of my comments are just me parroting his bitching.

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    There is no comparison with Taiwan and Tibet. I agree, they have no right in Tibet, but the only reason they are not in Taiwan, is the US refused to ditch Chiang when he got chased off the mainland. Chiang lost, but he was hardly worth decades of tension any more than South Vietnam was.
    On the contrary creating tension followed by decisive destruction of all Marxist fronts everywhere is worth the effort. Crush all Reds.

    Given a choice of going back in time, the right choice likely would have been to let China defeat Chiang and let the world move on.
    MOVE ON??!! To what? Fuck the filthy, genocidal Reds! The day is coming when we get square with them. How can you completely ignore their atrocities??

    If the US had not stuck it's nose into Vietnam after the French got booted out, Vietnam would have been unifed without several years of bloodshed too.
    The UN which is a Communist front scam caused the division and the West fell for it as it did in Korea. We shouldve taken both North Vietnam back & North Korea followed by a drive into China as well. Crush all Reds! Stick them into their own Gulags!!
    I don't like the Chinese like I mentioned, but, I also don't think the US is far behind them in some ways as well.
    I like the Chinese people. I hate Marxism in all its insidious forms. The Reds are subverting us here now too with obama as their Point Man;

    You can't just throw the world socialism around like a catch all phrase Slaak. Canada is basically socialist, and we are more free here, and our economy isn't in the round file as well. Some countries can do democracy right, and some can't, and some countries can do socialism right and some can't.
    Wishful thinking on your part there. Neither the US or Canada (or western Europe for that matter) are "free" now. We have been subjugated by Civil Law. We can be locked up without trial based upon baseless accusations by arbitrary family courts or military tribunals since the 9-11 scam enabled ratification of martial law. Utopianist factions who espouse socialist ideology are behind this scam.

    The Russians invented communism, and yet they had no skill at it all the same.
    The Russians didnt invent that bullshit, Freemasons did. The Russians were the among the ultimate victims of their titanic fraud.
    HOGMUTT-
    Here's S'aaks new crib
    A bunch of malcontents from Whore gamer tried to start ma new forum and S'aak killed it before it got off the ground.
    How stupid do you have to be to believe this shit? It's stunning.

  9. #9
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    Heheh Slaak, YOU (assuming you are American I don't really know) are likely the ultimate reason for China's success. Every time you buy something essentially made in China (which is just about everything today) you are basically just putting money in the hands of the people you hate.

    Every once in a while I try and find things made entirely in Canada and or the US and to be honest, I rather don't like the task. This laptop was made there for instance as well as just about everything I can see in my room right now.

    Yes China is a place ruled by an unfeeling nasty bunch, but, Joe average (cheap bugger) American is really the one paying for it.

    Really, the world is threatened more by sheep than it ever will be by nasty people. Nasty people, like bullies, have no power till we give it to them. It's why by the way I wouldn't travel in the US if you were paying for it. The TSA for instance, it's everything that is wrong with the USA right now.
    Please don't go on about how cool it is I like wargames. It gets old.
    Some of my comments are just me parroting his bitching.

  10. #10
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    Heheh Slaak, YOU (assuming you are American I don't really know) are likely the ultimate reason for China's success. Every time you buy something essentially made in China (which is just about everything today) you are basically just putting money in the hands of the people you hate.

    Every once in a while I try and find things made entirely in Canada and or the US and to be honest, I rather don't like the task. This laptop was made there for instance as well as just about everything I can see in my room right now.

    Yes China is a place ruled by an unfeeling nasty bunch, but, Joe average (cheap bugger) American is really the one paying for it.
    Once again I dont hate the Chinese people, just Communists. If it is possible to eradicate Communism in all its forms through trade then Im all for it. Maybe doing so will enable the Chinese, Vietnamese, Koreans, Cambodians & Burmese to convert it from within.
    Really, the world is threatened more by sheep than it ever will be by nasty people. Nasty people, like bullies, have no power till we give it to them. It's why by the way I wouldn't travel in the US if you were paying for it. The TSA for instance, it's everything that is wrong with the USA right now.
    That is utterly true. Sheeple are apolitical and dont have a clue about the machinations of power. Only God is capable of solving this problem.
    HOGMUTT-
    Here's S'aaks new crib
    A bunch of malcontents from Whore gamer tried to start ma new forum and S'aak killed it before it got off the ground.
    How stupid do you have to be to believe this shit? It's stunning.

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