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Thread: The Spell System

  1. #51
    Moderator Asmodai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Fredericksburg, VA (USA)
    Quote Originally Posted by Torin View Post
    Im not sure I like the idea of getting a random spell though, if I understand you correctly.. I think I'd prefer choosing what I research. But hey, that could be fun too
    I believe what is being referred to as random spells is what spells are available to you to be researched.
    For example:
    If I create a sorcerer with 9 books in life magic (the most you can have in WoM I believe) then the game may allow me to research ANY life magic but if I have zero books in Fire lets say then I can't research any fire spells. That much is pretty obvious, although maybe 9 books doesn't get you ALL, just more than anyone else. What happens though if I have 5 books in life magic and 4 in fire. Well I shouldn't be able to get every life magic and every fire magic spell and I shouldn't be able to get as many life or fire magic spells as someone who put 9 books in them. So instead the computer randomly picks maybe 50% of the life magic spells at each level and 40% of the fire magic spells at each level and fills my spell book with those. These aren't already researched, this is the pool of all spells available to me from which I can decide what to research. Since the 50% of life magic spells is determined randomly though that means if I use the same wizard again in my next game I might get a different pool of spells that I can research. There may also be some "universal" spells that everyone always has available to research no matter what schools they put books in. This adds some variation to the game, even using the same wizard and also makes things like trading spells via diplomacy or finding spells in tomes in dungeons a real draw. You are always picking which specific spell you are researching though.

    If you're interested you can read about how MoM did it here:
    Spell Rarity

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Yup. I was just ecstatic to stumble across this project a couple of days ago.. I was a huge fan of the first game (my personal favorite of all time actually) and every once in a while I'd check around to see if any one was working on a successor. Overall I agree with 98 % the suggestions from the developers and fans alike.. And think its shaping up to be an excellent game and a true spiritual successor.. been trying to read as much as I can on the forums before putting my 2 cents in...

  3. #53
    Good feedback and discussion guys.

    Yes, the forums is now mainly populated by fans... I'm busy you know... keeping up with this and that...

    Anyways, I want to say that you guys really are helping WoM take shape. Soon we plan to setup our "backers only" section where we can begin to firm up some of these concepts. (The real firming up probably won't start happening until after the KS wraps up, but it give us something to look forward to, lol.)

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Bologna, italy
    hello... once again i re-write this.
    It seems to me you seem to be wanting to simplify at best all of it.
    How about using the old trick magic the gathering did?
    5 colours of magic to keep it simple and give nice visual background themes to things. (will discuss this in other posts..)

    also you could associate generally these elements with alignments in general.. like

    White (healing, life, protection, all that stuff, rarely has offensive components)
    Associated with good
    Black (death, life drain undead.. often relies more on offensive than defensive)
    Associated with evil
    Blue (combines air and water, relies mostly on manipulation)
    Associated with law
    Green (all powers of nature, you didn't put this down!)
    Associated with neutrality
    Red (combines earth and fire. usually offensive stuff)
    Associated with chaos

    and the spell schools you did.. tho eliminating one, protection whych is pretty redundant with agumentation.. I cast on you a spell to protect you thus I enanche or agument your protections..

    Summoning (summoning is needed for all flavours definitely)
    Destruction (same as summoning..)
    Mentalism (a way to combine schools like: Divination, Illusion-phantasm, and charm, all that has 'mental effect' descriptor)
    Augmentation (a way to combine alteration, enanchement and all kind of protective stuff)
    Necromancy (life and death, it is always like that I suggest against 'vitamancers' necromacy deals with life and death by itself, colour of magic determines what you do with it.. whathever promote life, or death.)

    examples of that stuff can be..

    summoning is easy you just bring in stuff from different planes.

    Summoning (alone) -> various kinds of humanoids from the normal material plane, goblins, and crap stuff monster summoning general (less control over what comes out)

    White + summoning -> angels, positive creatures such ki-rins and so on
    Black + summoning -> ghosts, shades and other crap
    Blue + summoning -> water and air elementals
    Green + summoning -> animals, treants, plants, swarms
    Red + summoning -> Fire and Earth elementals

    red+black+summoning-> devils and demons probably.

    Destruction is a little trickier for some elements

    desctruction (alone) -> force effects such as magic missles, or magic missle storms..

    White + Destruction -> turn undead, consacrations, positive energy damage spells
    Black + Destruction -> enfeeblements, drain lifes, negative energy damage
    Blue + Destruction -> ice storms, gust of wind, cone of cold
    Green + Destruction -> entanglement, entanglement with thorns, temporary swarms
    Red + Destruction -> fireballs, hails of rocks, stone spikes, acid arrow..

    Mentalism (alone) -> basic divinations (detect magic stuff) and more generalist spells like the school of "general" magic list.

    White + Mentalism -> Divinations
    Black + Mentalism -> fear, curses, phantasmal killer
    Blue + Mentalism -> charms, dominations, illusionary stuff
    Green + Mentalism -> charms, dominations on plants, swarms (usually immune..)
    Red + Mentalism -> mind wracks, lower mind defense.

    Agumentation (alone) -> some general purely magic protections like magic armor, shield, and stuff like teleport.

    White + Agumentation -> protections tons of them.. of all kinds.. magic vestment, prot from evil..
    Black + Agumentation -> turn resistance, prot from good..
    Blue + Agumentation -> mental stat agumentations, elemental protections
    Green + Agumentation -> misc agumentations, (barkskin, animalistic power, general small multi element protections)
    Red + Agumentation -> physical stat agumentations, elemental protections

    Necromancy (alone) -> some minor healing spells and some minor negative damage spells (negative energy ray, cure light wounds)

    White + Necromancy -> HEALING spells! and then raise dead (back alive I mean)
    Black + Necromancy -> Raise Undead spells! of all sorts.. healing for undead in form of negative energy..
    Blue + Necromancy -> invisibility to undead, command undead. raise dead on outsiders (elementals only of appropriate color..)
    Green + Necromancy -> regeneration
    Red + Necromancy -> raise dead on outsiders (elementals only of appropriate color..), hellish fires..

    this is just a draft, I'd need to talk with my player's handbook under hand to define every single spell in the appropriate place.
    Last edited by Kahn_Bloodbane; 04-18-2013 at 01:34 PM. Reason: didn't get trought, re-writing it all.

  5. #55
    Arcane Candidate
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Berlin, Germany
    I appreciate the work you've put in your post but I would prefer to keep actual system two main reason for this:
    1. so far it sounds good
    2. and most importantly keep the actual dev state to keep the dev time small
    Real programmers don't comment their code - it was hard to write, it should be hard to understand.

  6. #56
    I certainly appreciate the feedback. We just did an update about magic. You might want to go take a look at it:

    That should give you a better idea of the direction we're heading

  7. #57
    Arcane Candidate
    Join Date
    May 2013
    I just heard about this project yesterday and needless to say I am very excited, and I want to thank your team for taking it upon themselves to breathe fresh life into a game I am extremely fond of.

    I wanted to check the spells forum because that is one of the biggest parts of the game. The approach you are taking seems a little complicated but hopefully it will come out balanced. I can definitely see how it would contribute to multiple replays of the game. Dominions 3 has a similar set up and you might want to check out how they have executed it for research purposes. When making a pretender god in that game you would assign points to spell circles determining the power of spells you could cast. There are also multiple fields of study such as Thetamurgy, Construction(golems etc), and the like. Researching these fields would unlock spells to cast, BUT you could only cast them if your god (or hired mages) had the required number of points in the fields required, and many of the spells took knowledge in multiple fields. It works out well and adds a ton of replayability.

    My one big concern is the lack of multiple casting in battles. One of the fun parts of MoM was countering spells or enchantments your opponent casts in battle, and stacking your own. If you can only cast once per battle that sort of waters down the importance of magic in the game and doesn't let you have fun with combos. Maybe a mechanic can be introduced to increase the number of casts you get as the game progresses, such as increasing when a population/city/shrine milestone is hit. Also when you hit a certain high number of mana income per turn in MoM you could cast some spells instantly that usually took a turn to cast, and then still start working on casting another (at least I think you could). This made the ramp up to endgame pretty exciting when wizards were able to throw spells all over the place. Just my two cents.

  8. #58
    Arcane Candidate
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    The 2 types of circles (colors + effects) idea sounds interesting. It would be nice if there were some kind of synergistic multiplier for specific combos. For example, maybe at the starting screen you can choose to give up one spellbook to buy the power "demolition expert" (or whatever), that gives you an additional bonus when casting spells that contain both "fire" and "destruction".

    One challenge is that bonus multipliers could quickly get out of control, so there would need to be some way to keep it balanced, but still offer that as an avenue for specialization.

    To add flavor and uniqueness, some combos will maybe not be possible?

    to the different colors

  9. #59
    Arcane Candidate
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    While I get the hesitation over allowing both Life and Death magic to be chose, I think it could open up some fun mechanics. Each side perverts the cause of the other so you could have things like:

    Reliquary unit - causes neg effects to opponent (aura) buffs your units (aura).
    Dark Angels
    Graveyard effects differing from Death (Death might give you units - mixed you might purify graveyards to provide city buffs/mana).
    Control/possess Demon units vs. destroy them via Light vs. Summon them via Death.
    Unit buffs at the cost of health/resist.
    Unit buffs - end of battle unit dies and becomes undead fodder unit.

    ---------- Post added at 11:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 AM ----------

    I'd also like to see Heroes that approach you for hire tied into your spell circle selection. Lightning mages if you've unlocked lightning spells, a green Knight if you've gone Life/Earth for example.

  10. #60
    there was mention of dominion 3 research system. one other nice thing is that player could spend mana gems of apropiate color to increase mage's skill or with element or sorcery (4 element, astral, nature, death, blood) but it was "little" expensive (especialy for gaining skill if not having it and as it get stronger) or use boster items to cast stronger spells. Also i played Age of wonders shadow magic. System there is 4 elements, life, death, cosmos (combinations of before excpet no combining life and death i think) + 1 pick on special skill (better spell damage, build bonus, less upkeep). during play wizard research can learn spell from his spheres, but can also learn one of unchosen skills.

    Any way for player to increase his skill in magic and/or skill intentionaly, not just random luck like MoM (there is good one to get spell book you wont attacking right node i thing, retorts is more will of RNGod). Wizard have still place for self improvement not just in size of spell library during the game.

    This improvment of spell circles or learning new ones can improve mana pool during turn for example.

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