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Thread: The Races of Elannra

  1. #11
    OK, the undead are going to work in a VERY different way from the other races. Any sorcerer with talent in death or necromancy will be able to create and use undead. That is gong to be very little like having undead as your main race, however. That is actually going to be my big post for tomorrow. So, if you'll forgive me I'm going to give it the go by for the moment. Early tomorrow I intend to do a full post about it. I will say this, undead don't pay for anything, so they produce no gold by default. Also, they don't grow food or eat it. I'll leave the rest for tomorrow if that's alright.

  2. #12
    Acolyte
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    Aaron, is there any chance players will be able to design their own race using a perks system similar to, say, Master of Orion 2? It was exceptionally balanced and yet always led to divergent gameplays.
    All your magic are belong to Kestrel

  3. #13
    I'll say this about that. MOO2 is one of my favorite games of all time. I occasionally go bust it up on impossible just to prove I still got it. For the moment that's all I'll say. However, I like the way you think

  4. #14
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    Typically, Humanoid races tend to be the "good" races with the undead/demon/lizard races aligning with "bad". Assuming you're planning a similar nexus of alignment with the d20 system, a counterpoint or middlepoint would be much appreciated. I like the idea of a mechanical or otherwise neutral race as a center. This also of course depends a lot on how you intend to approach the concept of alignment in the game. If you're NOT actually planning to include this aspect, how about a purely flying race, or solely underwater?

  5. #15
    We're undecided on alignment yet, but I think we're leaning toward unaligned. That's really how MoM came across. (At least to me.)

    Purely flying could be very interesting. Always starts in the plane of air maybe...

    Underwater is probably going to have to wait until we do an expansion. I just don't think we're going to have room for it in the base game.

  6. #16
    Acolyte
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    I always felt alignments were extremely limiting. "All the good guys hate all the bad guys" is pretty one-dimensional.

    By contrast, opposing philosophies adds depth and variety. For example, nature mages could have a hard time getting along with necromancers because raising the dead is an affront to nature. Meanwhile, mages trained in the school of sorcery might think necromancy is a pretty neat idea and wish they'd thought of it first.
    All your magic are belong to Kestrel

  7. #17
    Developer Hoverdog's Avatar
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    Indeed. I've always hated the DnD alignment philosophy, it's one-dimensional, restrictive and extremely meta. I'd rather have relations based on semi-random wizard personalities (MoM had this, with Aggressive, Chaotic and other traits; but overall diplomacy was rather botched in that game) , opposing magic schools (death vs. life, destruction vs. healing), and race animosities (elves dislike dwarves, who have an aversion towards orcs, while everyone hates undead).

  8. #18
    It's a complex subject. We plan to address it, but I'm not sure what direction we're going to head in yea. The more opinions we get the better Still, I think it's safe to say we're going avoid the basic alignment model.

  9. #19
    Moderator Asmodai's Avatar
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    As far as alignment I'm not a big fan of having it in general either however I have to say of the Alignment system that I've seen I think the D20 one is by far the best. I don't see how you can claim it one dimensional, it's clearly two dimensional with the LAW-CHAOS axis and the GOOD-EVIL axis (which is a compliment as most other games I've played do in fact have one dimensional alignments). I also believe humans in D20 are in fact neutral as a race not good as there are plenty of both good and bad humans. Some classes likewise have alignment restrictions (A Paladin must be Lawful Good, a Monk must be Lawful, etc.) which I don't know if you simply ignore if you ditch the alignment system or replace by something else. Having heroes/champions of different classes join you depending on your alignment (and even potentially losing them if your alignment changes) seems like it would be an interesting dynamic. Likewise having captured cities of races with opposing alignment create unrest adds a nice dynamic as well. I do also like a race relations dynamic but I see that as an additional mechanic not a replacement for alignment.
    Alignment seems abstract to us in real life because real life tends to be shades of gray. Keep in mind though in Fantasy Angels and Demons and Devils are REAL potential physical beings and so there is TRUE EVIL and TRUE GOOD in a more concrete fashion. Is an Undead Wizard going to be able to summon an Angel?

  10. #20
    Moderator Asmodai's Avatar
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    I think Hoverdog's beastmen suggestion could possibly provide a mechanism to add "flavor" to orcs/goblinoids while adhering to the d20 system. This faction would be nomadic on their own, able to pick up and move their "cities" but lacking of their own advanced (permanent) structures. The would however subjugate conquered cities so they could for example take over a dwarven city and use that city to produce quality armor and weapons for their soldiers. This faction would contain gobins, orcs, hobgoblins, bugbears, ogres, trolls, wolves (including worgs and dire wolves.) Perhaps Evil Giants could even be lumped into this group? Goblins could be "upgraded" to use poison. Ogre Magi would provide magic. Barghest could be used for stronger forces.
    Goblinoids and Orcs just seem like such a core faction to me in the D20 system it's odd to exclude them. Dwarves for example get a bonus on attack roles against them as a racial feature.

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