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Thread: Artifacts of Power

  1. #21
    I like the item slots system you proposed.

    I also like the idea of having to research a spell to get to a certain effect. That does fit in more with the D20 rules and would be fairly easy to implement.

    They both go in my "Give em a think" pile. Very good suggestions!

  2. #22
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    Asmodai's suggestion is nice but would leave every hero with a minimum of 8 slots. That's a whole lot, MoM had a cap to that, and it was based on the hero themselves. I would think that halving that would still allow a hero to be nicely outfitted without creating the easy potential for a doomhero single-handedly slaying everything on the map by early mid-game. 4-5 slots.

    To maybe sweeten the pot for enchanters, the ability to either up-enchant, strengthen an enchantment or straight out add enchantments to an item would be nice.

  3. #23
    I admit eight slots is a lot. We may start with MoM's classic three and turn it up one slot at a time until we find the sweet spot.

    Some of the disciplines, like enchanter, will effect the limits of what you can do with a magic item. One of our goals is to make "artifact centric" gameplay a real option.

  4. #24
    Moderator Asmodai's Avatar
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    I definitely think the D20 slots is too much which is what I tried to suggest a way to collapse. I guess the my thought is that we keep hearing how D20 based this game is going to be so I'd like to see as many of the D20 SRD magic magic items as I can... maybe not on launch but with DLC later and such but if you cut slots down to say 3 body segments then you are going to lose A LOT of items. My goal was to try to combine the slots in a logical fashion into a smaller set without completely losing any body locations and thus all D20 items associated with that slot. I don't remember what the three slots were for MoM but lets say it's right and left hand and body... or heck lets count the hands as one and include head. So you can have magic armor, helmet, and weapon but now there is no boots, belts, gauntlets (unless you give up weapons/shields??), etc. in the game. More slots doesn't seem like something that can easily be added later through DLC.

    If your concern is uber powered heroes with tons of magic items first I'd say I thought that was a desired play style. By that I mean a Wizard could choose to build his army through gear but that requires (s)he neglect other areas of development. Another thing to consider is that when a hero dies maybe they could drop their items for others to pick up. Have another hero nearby and you can recover it just fine, but if your enemy has a hero nearby then you may have just given all your hard earned uber loot to your enemy. Also while a champion with uber loot may be able to dominate other units you have your main Wizard as the equalizer. I assume there are spells your main Wizard can research to attack units both on the overland map and in tactical combat independent of what units (s)he has in the area.

  5. #25
    The three slots in MoM were weapons, armor and misc. There were some variations there like one weapon two misc. But three was the limit. That is certainly too low.

    I will say this about having eight slots: they are going to cost a lot to fill. Creating super heroes with that method isn't going to be cheap or easy and as Asmodai very correctly points out, playing as an artificer is meant to be a viable play style.

    That having been said, more slots will be easy to add with DLC. I won't go into the details, but the system we're using would allow us to support ALL the D20 slots. It's just a matter of turning some off and hooking it up right to the GUI. We can always tweak the GUI and add more slots later.

    In this case I would rather error on allowing too many items than too few. Still, I feel the best way will be to start somewhere we know is too low and work our way up from there.

    And yes, you will be able to cast attack spells overland. So, you could keep beating uber-heroes in the overland map until you got lucky and killed them. (Keep in mind that tactic will be limited by your magical skill. If you plan to kill heroes that way you better REALLY invest in magical skill.)

  6. #26
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    Not every hero in MoM was weapons, armor and misc, especialy the wizardy classes were commonly wand & misc x2. Even if you restrict the number of slots, you don't have to restrict the specific slots themselves. I agree 3 was a bit low, but also in MoM it was super easy to make wonderfully broken weapons with just the "create artifact" spell which everyone had access to.

    Balance that out and more slots isn't an issue.

  7. #27
    I was counting wands and staffs as weapons

    Anyway, I was just considering another idea. What about true "Artifacts"? My definition for an artifact in D20 (and I'm not trying to start an argument here) was any magic item that had a total bonus over +10 (like a holy keen vorpal longsword +5). I want players to be able to make artifacts, but there has to be some real limits on it. What do we do? Exorbitant exponential price? Special disciplines chosen at character creation? What's the best way to handle it?

  8. #28
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    I believe what you are referring to as Artifacts are in fact Epic Magic Items in the D20 system. How to create them is similar to how you create normal magic items it's just that in D20 they require a feat that isn't available until you reach Epic levels (>20). Presumably our main Wizard is an Epic Wizard though so these items wouldn't seem to require any different mechanic. D20 Artifacts are actually a different thing in that they are specifically NOT creatable anymore by normal magic. Either the magic to create them was lost or they items created by the gods for example. I think having player created epic magic items would be great but I don't think players should be able to create true D20 artifacts. That's not to say they wouldn't be in the game though, artifacts could be premade items that are extremely rare and guarded by the strongest of guardians. I don't think it's necessary for the player to be able to create every type of magic item in the game.

    One mechanic not necessarily in the D20 system though that would be cool to add and is common in games today with inventory is sets. Like a armor+helmet+shield set that gets a bonus if you have all three. Maybe if you have both boots of elvenkind and cloak of elvenkind you get invisibility in additions to hide and move silently. Perhaps a pair of swords made for dual wielding get a bonus if you have both. This isn't as important if you can make them yourselves but if you have to find them then trying to collect the set could be fun.

  9. #29
    I see your point about artifacts. Making them where they can only be discovered adds some real flavor. Like you said, they were created by ancients or gods or what have you. It's good. I think it will go in the "Let's do it" pile.

    I also like the idea or "sets" especially when combine with artifacts you have to find. Goes in the "think" pile.

  10. #30
    All of this sounds like you're on the right track.

    The general idea of "artificer" being a stand alone play style is great (as opposed to MoM where it is played beside a more traditional style). I could see Gnomes or Dwarves pairing great with this.

    I like the idea of mechanical/magical units a la golems, juggernauts and other automatons for this specialty as well.

    As for the epic items vs artifacts. Having pre-made, uncraftable items with a game changing level of power as loot for an uber-lair is a great idea. What should set artifacts apart wouldn't necessarily be the total combat bonuses because that's a little boring, but unlearnable abilities like allowing the hero to come back after a losing battle with 1 HP, fast-travel across vast distances for the hero and their army or something else along those lines.

    For epic items (the ones you can craft): in MoM you could only add a couple of abilities to any given item, but I like the notion mentioned above of an exponential price increase (beyond a certain point) rather than a hard limit (if you want to bankrupt your empire for one awesome sword then go for it These items could be (at end game) crazy powerful like artifacts in terms of total combat bonus (this would be important for an artificer end game), but would lack the artifact only special abilities.

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