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Thread: Artifacts of Power

  1. #51
    Mage of the Inner Tower War Troll's Avatar
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    I would really like magical items to be quite rare and hard to get your hands on in the early game. Perhaps adding the building 'Spell forge' that has to be built before you can produce them might slow things down a little. As an Artificer you could have one pre-built in your capital.

  2. #52
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    @Torin Ahh, I totally read it wrong then. That wasn't a fault of yours, rather of me being up at 1am reading/writing posts. I wasn't getting what you meant by the 50% casting skill. That is an interesting idea.

    I might still contend to have it power based though, if only for the sake of how slowly casting skill may grow (again assuming it grows like in MoM, or similar progression.) and for "story." Playtesting and all that. I'll also say that I'd rather not have a "que" for item creation. One at a time.

    I thought the same thing about the downpayment, quoting myself, "However, we also have 5000 mana, and lets put a cap on the down payment of 20% (maybe a higher % for an Artificer)."

    It was a huge wall of text, so that kinda blended in there, I had to search for it myself!



    @War Troll
    I think the intended direction is to have us able to create artifacts from the get-go. Obviously these aren't going to be the most powerful ones, or maybe not even great ones. However, I can see the merit in having a wizard have to build a forge, and an Artificer starting with one.

    It is my feeling, and Aaron will let us know his thoughts, that we will start the game with basic enchantments, like maybe up to +3 attack on a weapon, +3 defense on a piece of armor, etc. Basic enchantments. Of course I think there will also be enchantments based on your spell circle choices, as there was in MoM. In MoM if you had 8 Sorecery books you could cast Phantasmal, 7 for Haste; 6 (or maybe it was 5)for Magic Immunity. Now you could cast Haste and Magic Immunity on units, but Phantasmal was only available for an enchantment on items and only at 8 Sorcery books.

    As such in WoM, if you have 3 points in Air, and 3 in Protection, perhaps you will be able to enchant a projectile/missile barrier, like Guardian Wind. It has been suggested that you have to be able to have researched the spell before being able to enchant an item with such effect, which I like the idea of as well. I do still like the idea of special abilities being unlocked for enchanting based on circle choices.

    However, say you start with 3 Air and 3 Protection, and say it gives you the ability to enchant a breastplate with Guardian Wind, at the start of the game when you have a low power base and low mana, you probably wouldn't want to start enchanting a breastplate with Guardian Wind because of the time sink. Obviously the numbers have to be playtested to balance. Rather, the usual prudent thing will to create a +1 defense breastplate or something that might take 10 turns, and a lot less mana, leaving you with some mana to fight early battles. If we have to research Guardian Wind to cast it on the item, that is its own time sink/preventative measure. I'm not partial to either way, they both make sense and try to address the issue. Though again, I do like the idea of certain special abilities only being available due to circle choices.

    @James Davey Forgot to say it before but... Attachable wings! Loving it. Maybe a template that can't have +defense put on it, but could be enchanted with movement/speed/dodge, possibly flight. The visual on a battlefield could be incredible.
    Last edited by Larry4444; 04-18-2013 at 08:29 PM.

  3. #53
    I finally have a few minutes to jump in here and say a few words. We can thank insomnia for that, lol.

    I like the ideas you guys are throwing out there. I do want you to be able to start making magic items early on, but to start with they are going to be rather limited. You will only have so much mana and so much you can spend per turn. Plus, of course, you're not going to have many heroes very early in the game (more than likely). We just want to make sure that in the short run you can give your new hero and +1 shield and in the long run you can make items of devastating power.

    So, this "Spell Forge". How would you build it? Where would it be located? Could you lose it?

  4. #54
    Mage of the Inner Tower War Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    I finally have a few minutes to jump in here and say a few words. We can thank insomnia for that, lol.

    I like the ideas you guys are throwing out there. I do want you to be able to start making magic items early on, but to start with they are going to be rather limited. You will only have so much mana and so much you can spend per turn. Plus, of course, you're not going to have many heroes very early in the game (more than likely). We just want to make sure that in the short run you can give your new hero and +1 shield and in the long run you can make items of devastating power.

    So, this "Spell Forge". How would you build it? Where would it be located? Could you lose it?
    I'd say you were either limited to one Spellforge, or have them expensive in terms of building cost and upkeep if you wanted to build another in another city. Usually it would be in a Capital. Artificers begin with one but others have to build them and the cost is prohibitive to factions in the very early game. Certain factions like Dwarves could have cost reductions for creating spellforges and Elves could receive rebates from constructing items or mana reductions in the creation process. A building like any other, it can be destroyed or damaged by enemy action/natural disaster/incompetent staff/deranged arsonist.

    Another solution would be to have it as a buildable attachment to your Tower so it travels with you (I'm assuming you can move it as in MoM) and then it would mean only your Capital City would be the production centre for magical items. This would pretty much mean more than one Tower attachment would be possible, though (and I don't know if you guys are taking that route).

    Either way, I never really liked the 'teleporting artifact' thing in MoM (it would also defeat the purpose of building additional spellforges). Always seemed a bit lame. Either have the artifact sent out via other hero (a bit faffy) or even better select a hero to send it to and have it delivered in a number of turns dependent on how far away from the spellforge they are (x2 if on another plane).
    Last edited by War Troll; 04-19-2013 at 04:46 PM.

  5. #55
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    Possible names: “Spell Forge”, "Item Forge"; I'm sure we can think of a better name...whatever the name ends up being, IF it is a building that has to built, I feel would have to be built in your Fortress city from a story point as well as a practical point. It would move with you if Move Fortress was used. Limit of 1 per Sorcerer Lord. I lean towards it not being destructible even so.

    What happens if you are halfway into creating an item and the forge is destroyed? Are you out the mana you put into it and have to start over? Obviously a motivation to harass other Sorcerer Lords if so. Also a major irritation to worry about.


    I’d prefer it to just be something that as a Sorcerer Lord you already have, not a building, and not destructible. Just an option (rune emblazoned anvil icon on the GUI bar perhaps?), that you click on (or have a hotkey mapped to), which would pull up the “Create Artifact” GUI. Basically as if, like in MoM, you had cast the spell “Create Artifact”.

    I rather thought the teleporting an artifact in MoM was a simple and elegant solution to “how do I get my hero on the front lines of battle his new shiny sword?” issue. At our Fortress there was not a cost, there was a 20 mana cost to send it anywhere else.
    Granted maybe that will have to be adjusted for distance in WoM; though I’d be fine with a set low cost as well. I feel its plausible that if you can cast a meteor storm that covers an entire plane, or plane shift an army from one plane to another, that “teleporting” a magic item was be a feat of normal wizardry.

  6. #56
    Archmage of the Central Tower Happerry's Avatar
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    I prefer the old Create Artifact spell to what's been suggested here as well.

  7. #57
    Just stick with the Create Artifact spell please. I don't think you should veer from the simple elegance of MoM without having a very good reason. Feature creep has killed many a MoM successor.
    Last edited by ioticus; 04-20-2013 at 06:30 AM.

  8. #58
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    @ioticus The “Item Forge” is being suggested to address a “problem” with the casting of enchant item/create artifact spell: When you cast either spell it ties up your ability to cast other overland spells, usually for many turns. Even with Artificer.

    WoM is going to be a BIGGER game, in terms of landmass/planes, and possibly in terms of number of heroes that you can have and maybe even the number of slots they have for equipment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    In MoM item creation was handled by one of two spells. We want to avoid this in WoM for a few reasons. One of them being the fact that we want players to be able to begin item creation as soon as they start the game. (Not that you couldn't do that in MoM, we're just making it easier.) Another reason is that we want more magical items in game. Even more types of item. For instance, we're considering adding potions that could be created in an alchemists shop and used by any unit. We want this to be a system that is simple enough for the casual artificer, but in depth enough to satisfy players who want to base their entire strategy on magical equipment.

    What we would like here, as almost everywhere in these forums, is feedback. What would you like to see included? Would you like your sorcerer to be able to invest time and Mana into tools that would make item creation faster or cheaper? Mithril, Adamantine, Balonium, what magical materials would you like to see? How should you go about getting them in game? Should each plane have it's own unique magical material?

    The more feedback we get the better we can make WoM. So, don't be shy, post away.



    When I made the suggestion to have an “Item Forge” it was not an actual thing that you as a Sorcerer Lord would build/create, rather something you can see when looking at yourself in your tower for visual flavor, akin to seeing the spell book when finishing researching a spell or summoning circle when summoning a hero/creature, and it being a simple icon on the GUI that you have access to from turn 1.

    Though as I said, there is merit to it being a destructible building/implement for "war" purposes; though I'd prefer it not to be.

    From an overly simplistic "story" point of view, you have a Fortress that was built. Its a big Fortress, all those levels have to be dedicated to something other than your harem and dining hall! As a Sorcerer Lord why not include a forge/lab room (the ultimate man cave!) to go along with your Summoning Room, Research library/study, Scrying room (for diplomacy with other wizards) and bedchambers?

    Again, I think it works best by being simple and not being a building/destructible object, rather just part of being a Sorcerer Lord, but maybe War Troll/others can change my mind.

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry4444 View Post
    @ioticus The “Item Forge” is being suggested to address a “problem” with the casting of enchant item/create artifact spell: When you cast either spell it ties up your ability to cast other overland spells, usually for many turns. Even with Artificer.

    WoM is going to be a BIGGER game, in terms of landmass/planes, and possibly in terms of number of heroes that you can have and maybe even the number of slots they have for equipment.






    When I made the suggestion to have an “Item Forge” it was not an actual thing that you as a Sorcerer Lord would build/create, rather something you can see when looking at yourself in your tower for visual flavor, akin to seeing the spell book when finishing researching a spell or summoning circle when summoning a hero/creature, and it being a simple icon on the GUI that you have access to from turn 1.

    Though as I said, there is merit to it being a destructible building/implement for "war" purposes; though I'd prefer it not to be.

    From an overly simplistic "story" point of view, you have a Fortress that was built. Its a big Fortress, all those levels have to be dedicated to something other than your harem and dining hall! As a Sorcerer Lord why not include a forge/lab room (the ultimate man cave!) to go along with your Summoning Room, Research library/study, Scrying room (for diplomacy with other wizards) and bedchambers?

    Again, I think it works best by being simple and not being a building/destructible object, rather just part of being a Sorcerer Lord, but maybe War Troll/others can change my mind.
    Okay Larry, thanks for clarifying, I didn't read the entire thread carefully. I can see the logic in having a dedicated forging mechanism separate from the spell casting.

  10. #60
    Archmage of the Central Tower Happerry's Avatar
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    I'd still prefer a Create Artifact spell for, well, creating artifacts. It might be easier and simpler to create lesser items, but anything that really deserves the Name of Artifact shouldn't be something it's easy and convenient to make.

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