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Thread: Artifacts of Power

  1. #61
    Neophyte Sorcerer
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Whitehall, PA
    Typically when I say "artifacts" I mean "magic items" in general. I'll do my best to refer to them in more pure terms in the future.

    I believe most of us feel the same as you Happerry, in the sense of "true artifacts" should not be able to be crafted.

    There has been discussion about having high end items (artifacts), quoting Asmodai, "I believe what you are referring to as Artifacts are in fact Epic Magic Items in the D20 system. How to create them is similar to how you create normal magic items it's just that in D20 they require a feat that isn't available until you reach Epic levels (>20). Presumably our main Wizard is an Epic Wizard though so these items wouldn't seem to require any different mechanic. D20 Artifacts are actually a different thing in that they are specifically NOT creatable anymore by normal magic. Either the magic to create them was lost or they items created by the gods for example. I think having player created epic magic items would be great but I don't think players should be able to create true D20 artifacts. That's not to say they wouldn't be in the game though, artifacts could be premade items that are extremely rare and guarded by the strongest of guardians. I don't think it's necessary for the player to be able to create every type of magic item in the game."

    To which I agree.

    There has also been discussion of recipes for specific 'legen wait for it.............dary' items that are only found in high end liars/nodes, etc. These would require certain materials (if materials are added), most likely have a much higher cost than "normal magic items". Possibly also traded to other Sorcerer Lords during diplomacy.

    I feel all this adds flavor to the game/being a good way to introduce some lore into the Worlds of Magic.

  2. #62
    I always thought is was cool how in MoM you could get some items that actually increased your spell power in a certain sphere or gave you a special ability that you could only normally choose at character creation. I hope WoM will have that as well, as long as they are rare.

  3. #63
    Archmage of the Central Tower Happerry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    I was meaning the Create Artifact spell verses the Enchant Item spell. I think wizards should be able to make high end magic artifacts that are deserving of the capital letters, and I liked the old MOM system of blocking out normal spellcasting while you were making super extra shiny.

    Pretty much, what people are calling problems to be solved I'm not seeing as actual problems.

  4. #64
    Mage’s Assistant Belgariad87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    i like the idea of having to find the very good items. items were a large reason of why i would go out and destroy every lair and node i would find (with my 3 hero super team). Even though the spells to create items were available, it seemed much easier on my time and mana crystals to just go to a fire node with a behemoth and have Fang destroy him again and again until i got the item i wanted. I like that system. I think its great that you guys are making the artifact-creation side of things more practical, but don't do it at the expense of people like me, who enjoy just finding the best stuff.

  5. #65
    If you are going the route of "one city access to mithril, every unit can be refitted with it for a cost" you should probably have some form of check set in place that limits it since it is a bit powerful.

    Like the farther a unit is from the mithril the longer and more costly it would be to retro-fit it with mithril gear.

  6. #66
    OK, I like what I'm reading. Let me give you guys a break down on my current lean.

    I like the "Spell Forge" (or whatever we call it) as a flavorful name for the GUI system you use to bring up the item creation menu.

    You should be able to make simple magical items from early in game, although the cost of making many (or very powerful ones) may be prohibitive.

    More powerful artifacts may require something more or different than the "Spell Forge". (I'm not sure how this more or different should come across at this point.)

    Specific (legendary) items aren't created, they are found. They represent the efforts of other Sorcerers (or demi-gods or what have you) that long ago attained the heights your Sorcerer Lord hopes some day to reach.

    That's my current lean on the subject. Apply the normal play testing disclaimer.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Central Alberta
    Regarding Swifty's point about having some limitation on building units with mithril (or other boosters), perhaps access to one resource provides enough for x units per turn. That would allow your best unit production city to build boosted units once a distant resource was accessed, but still limit how powerful it is for your empire. It also provides motivation to find more of those resources and to capture them from your enemies...and to guard all of yours.

    This ability to use those special resources to build units in other cities should probably be limited to the plane that they're on. If someone really wants it, a spell can be created to allow one unit to be built in a selected city using a resource from another selected city on another plane, but that could wait for the future.

    Perhaps those other special resources, crysx for example, could be used to boost spell-casting units in the same way. Another resource could boost undead, or summoned creatures.

    ---------- Post added at 07:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:30 PM ----------

    I favor item creation--at least for the powerful ones--to be at the cost of being able to do something else, such as overland casting. If you want powerful items, you won't be blasting enemy cities. If you want to blast cities, you'd better seek out those treasure hoards.

    One other idea: the simplest items might be made by apprentices. You still have to allocate mana, but otherwise you can simply order a +1 sword or +1 helm. Perhaps in later game, this can increase in max bonus and number, based on some factors.

    One more idea: maybe the use of apprentices can be a reward for reaching some goal. At the start, you have to make your own +1 sword. Once you achieve "forgemaster status", you can let your minions do the basic stuff and can then work on better items. In games with micromanagement, I've often wished to be rewarded by getting helpers who would take over the tasks that I've done often enough to get tired of.

  8. #68
    Mage’s Assistant
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Very unfortunate that there are no plans for players to create true artifacts, even if it requires a special trait or other things. To me, the epitome of a fantasy magic game where you play a sorcerer lord is to do Sauronish things, such as creating the One Ring. So far, none have allowed this, which puzzles me greatly.

    The next step from the Spell Forge could be many things. A building in a city, a specific spell you need to cast and pay upkeep for, a specific terrain tile you may come across(perhaps different tiles for different subtypes of magic, say a volcano for fire and destruction magic, and such) or a magical item you need to create that does nothing else except act as the greater forge.

  9. #69
    Arcane Candidate
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    What's up Wasteland Interactive! I registered just so I can post in this thread!

    Imho, item creation is a big part of any 4X Fantasy game, and MoM did it superbly, and so far later successors haven't gotten it right. Granted, I've only played a few since then, but look at Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic, they included item creation, but you always got the same cookie-cutter choices for your items no matter what kind of mage you played. It was fun but still, in MoM what you could make depended on the spell effects you had available in your spellbook, and I'm hoping that's the way this one goes. It's what makes sense. Hopefully I'm not just repeating what others have said; I've only read the first 2 pages, then this last one.

    I also agree with the 2 above me. Being able to use apprentices to make minor items is a great idea, as is having some more advanced requirements than a spell forge for making the most powerful legendary items, as well as the wizard having his spell-casting time used up during creation. If legendary item creation is something that is not included, then maybe an out-of-game editor (like the hero editor I read about) so players can still create things to be found in-game?

    Thanks for making what appears to be a true successor to MoM - the greatest 4X fantasy game ever!
    Last edited by LutherX; 06-02-2013 at 11:21 PM.

  10. #70
    Arcane Candidate
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    The one ring...
    Am I the only one who immediately thought "Not quite as good as The 2 Ring"....?

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