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Thread: Show Some Discipline!

  1. #11
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    As I said in the other thread, great bonuses should come with great penalties, otherwise the 'lesser' traits are simply disenfranchised and why would anyone ever play with them? If not penalties inherent with the trait, the point cost being so high that they are impossible to select without negative traits to increase the point pool. Not only that, but there should be say a points bonus at end of game or something for starting with a sub-optimal build (ie. not using all picks) which will encourage the self-ramping of difficulty.

    As for multiplayer, just have the host able to selectively ban traits/trait classes and you're good.

  2. #12
    Your multiplayer solution is simple and functional. Simple + Functional = Perfect.

    I agree that great bonuses should come at a great cost, but that still doesn't strike balance. (Not that it should, I'm just saying it doesn't.) Take MoO2, you could choose detriments like Repulsive that made no difference on your game if you were planing to overthrow the universe anyway. So, I could get a load of points for choosing something that didn't adversely affect my play style at all. I'm not saying that's bad, in fact I loved it. I'm just saying "benefit" and "detriment" are in the eye of the beholder. So, we have to decide whether things are beneficial or detrimental from a rather "neutral" point of view.

    Repulsive is a perfect example because it had no effect on my game but would have ruined other peoples. I was able to take detriments that didn't effect me for benefits that did. As long as the detriment really is a detriment and you are going to have to change your play style around it I think it's fine.

    As I've said time and again, however, play testing.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    ...So, I could get a load of points for choosing something that didn't adversely affect my play style at all. I'm not saying that's bad, in fact I loved it.

    Repulsive is a perfect example because it had no effect on my game but would have ruined other peoples.
    This is the type of thing that actually makes a great and memorable game. Like you said, you loved it and yet it was technically overpowered for you, but other people hated it and avoided it for some other combination that fit their playstyle. I love stuff like that, and as you say it is hard to balance for multiplayer which is why the solution listed above works so well.


    Of course like you said earlier, you don't want to get in a situation where there is ONLY 1 combination worth taking. That's why I think "gating" unbalanced features might be a good solution.

  4. #14
    I just wanted to jump in here and let everyone know that I am planning on doing another post about which disciplines (anti-disciplines?) have been suggested so far. If any of you have more ideas for disciplines throw em up here.

  5. #15
    Here are a few ideas off the top of my head.

    Arachnist/Arachnid Master: The mage has developed a magical empathy with spiders. The mage's constructions (forts, outposts, portal gateways, etc.) are protected by a nest of allied spiders (IE, 2 or 3 low to medium level spiders. Maybe strength scales with mage?). Mage starts game with spider mount.
    [Similar disciplines could involve wolves/wargs, iron golems, angels, etc.]

    Attuned: The mage's spells require less mana. In battle, minor chance per hit that magic damage to the mage will deal additional damage.

    Spell-shielded: The reverse of Attuned. In battle, very minor chance magic damage dealt to the mage will be reduced completely, fair chance it will be reduced. The mage's spells require more mana.

    Conduit: Mage gains mana for magic damage dealt to him.

    Enlightened: Mage can convert mana into XP for his units.

    Archivist: Mage gains mana with every level-up/XP gain of his units.

    Denizen of Fire: Mage is magically attuned to the fire plane. Mage is significantly stronger while in the fire plane, or near any manifestations of fire (volcanoes, burning towns or forests, etc.). [Obviously, there could be a "Denizen of..." for each plane].

    Fatalist: The mage's magic power grows with every kill. In battle, after directly eliminating a certain number of enemy units, the mage's next combat spell will be greatly magnified in power.

  6. #16
    OK, I've compiled a list of most of the suggestions made so far for quick review. I left a few out that will require a bit more discussion. They were all interesting ideas, but some are going to be easier to implement than others (so I started with them). Here is the list so far:

    Positive:
    Arachnid Master (Get's spider units automatically under certain conditions. Possibly spider mounts for heroes.)
    Attuned (Heroes gain limited access to your spellbook) (May need another name)
    Attuned 2 (Spells require less mana and have a chance at critical damage) (May need another name)
    Battlecaster (Reduced distance mana penalty during combat)
    Charismatic (Possible effects on diplomacy, city influence, etc.)
    Conduit (Gains mana for magical damage dealt to units)
    Denizen of [Plane] (Starts in [plane] and units/cities/heroes receive bonuses in that plane and suffer penalties in it's opposite)
    [Effect] Savant (Has insight into a certain effects circle)
    [Elemental] Savant (Has insight into a certain elemental circle)
    Enchanter (Better and/or cheaper buffs and curses)
    Enlightened (Can buy xp for units with mana)
    Fatalist (During battle direct damage spells receive a bonus based on the amount of damage done by magic to enemy units)
    Mana Generator (Get's mana bonus per turn)
    Merchant (Get's gold bonus per turn)
    Planeswalker (Can move between planes more efficiently)
    Spell-shielded (Spells cost more to cast, but units come with spell resistance)
    Summoner (Get's some bonus to summoning)
    Traveler (Can move fortress at no cost)
    Warlord (Units can gain one additional level)
    War Mage (Bonus to any direct damage spell)
    Worldshaper (Get's access to all terraforming spells.

    Negative:
    Magicless (Can't use magic)
    Peace Lover (Can't declare war)

    We need more negative suggestions if we're going to implement them (Which I think is a good idea). Do we have any more suggestions at the moment?

  7. #17
    Just a few ideas...

    [Element] Weakness (Takes additional damage from spells with [Element] damage type)
    Dolt (Receives less XP than normal from battles or other XP-earning events)
    Recluse (Reduced HP when in party of more than 3 units)
    Light-weight (Can't use heavy armor or weapons)
    Frivolous (Gold penalty per turn)
    Simple (Research bonus per turn)
    Boorish (Diplomatic penalty)
    Flatfooted (Movement penalty through mountains and forests)

  8. #18
    You actually made me laugh out loud with "dolt". I'll add some of those to the growing list. I think we're going to end up with a lot of good ones!

  9. #19
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    Blind: Fog of War returns to areas not seen via constant means
    Earthbound: Cannot shift planes by any normal method other than a direct shift spell
    Cursed: Spells have chance of being forgotten

    Just a thought that negative traits without a more definite negative will be easy fodder for quick picks. Boorish strikes me as an always pick, for example.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakizbad View Post
    Just a thought that negative traits without a more definite negative will be easy fodder for quick picks. Boorish strikes me as an always pick, for example.
    Agreed, and I prefer the more dramatic effects to "-2 whatever points." I just thought I'd throw it out there anyway. Maybe something like "Can't form alliances/defensive pacts/etc." is more dramatic and worthwhile.

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