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Thread: Independent Empires

  1. #31
    Lesser races? Not sure, I tend towards "no".

    Independent empires? I vote "yes".

    Diplomatic relations sounds good. Sounds like fun to negotiate with an independent race along the lines of "Here, take this amount of gold pieces / this city / whatever, and in return, you will harass that rival of mine wih your troops - deal?" Har har...

    I also agree that ideally neutrals should both put up some fight and be rewarding to conquer and/or win for your side somehow.
    In MoO2, I liked how particularly good planet systems (Gaia worlds, artifact planets, splinter colonies) would mostly be guarded by space monsters. Fighting space monsters just to win a random, average planet when there are better (and undefended) planets nearby wouldn't be fun. However, this is sometimes how it is in MoM: There's that obscenely strong Troll city that's limited to size 8, but not far away is a superb spot to settle down - so why conquer? It's only a nuisance (especially since you can't raze it without losing fame), but there is no real reward attached to it.

    On the positive side, those systems in MoO2 were basically just sitting there, like fruit waiting to be picked. Before that happened, they didn't do anything. That's where MoM was better, with cities sending out troops to attack you.

    That's why I think the idea of active, strong neutral forces is very good: it would combine the advantages of both games.

  2. #32
    Mage of the Inner Tower War Troll's Avatar
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    I like neutral settlements as they give an early-game challenge without forcing you into an immediate sorcerer rivalry. Personally I'd like to see them given more character and predictability, maybe by giving them goals they want to attain, something like-

    Join a powerful faction (the stronger you get the more likely they will willingly join you).
    Obtain Wealth (Gold gifts, roads, trade routes, make them more willing to join).
    Maintain Law and order in locality (more likely to join you if you destroy roaming monsters).
    Maintain independence (unlikely to join you willingly without bloodshed).

    Something simple without going too Civ 5 City-states (constantly babying them got tedious quite fast). To make the above more meaningful there would probably need to be a diplomatic penalty for just conquering a neutral town.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by War Troll View Post
    I like neutral settlements as they give an early-game challenge without forcing you into an immediate sorcerer rivalry. Personally I'd like to see them given more character and predictability, maybe by giving them goals they want to attain, something like-

    Join a powerful faction (the stronger you get the more likely they will willingly join you).
    Obtain Wealth (Gold gifts, roads, trade routes, make them more willing to join).
    Maintain Law and order in locality (more likely to join you if you destroy roaming monsters).
    Maintain independence (unlikely to join you willingly without bloodshed).
    Good idea. Two further possibilities:
    Get magic (looking for magic-using heroes, artifacts, nodes, spellbooks, etc.)
    Expand and develop (found new cities, create an empire of its own - thus also Maintain Independence)

    Quote Originally Posted by War Troll View Post
    Something simple without going too Civ 5 City-states (constantly babying them got tedious quite fast). To make the above more meaningful there would probably need to be a diplomatic penalty for just conquering a neutral town.
    Diplomatic penalty IMHO depends on whom we are talking about. For example if there is another power- and conquest-hungry sorcerer in the game, then he/she certainly won't mind if you just conquer an independent empire - on the contrary, he/she might even look at you with more respect, since you too have shown strength, power and willingness to conquer. [And the same could go for attacking another sorcerer as well.]
    But of course pacifist and diplomacy-oriented sorcerers certainly won't look kindly on you.

  4. #34
    THE GRAND BACKER zdsdead's Avatar
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    Oh I definitely think that there should be independent nations with their own agendas etc, Lesser races Im not to sure about for the reasons already mentioned, with regard to full blown use in future factions. If there is a race that will almost certainly not be used in the game otherwise, then why not, are kobolds ever used?

  5. #35
    Archmage of the Inner Ring ampoliros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zdsdead View Post
    are kobolds ever used?
    Kobolds could end up going to the goblins.

  6. #36
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    That is a real good idea. But do not limit this new "Independente Empire" to be biuld only by wars. I suggest you to do an AI that induces cities to send settlers units when they reach his nearest high citizens level and some diplomacy could be great.

  7. #37
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    Possible options:

    Gift a prisoner from a defeated resource. Gift a mage - that civ now starts developing a more magic oriented approach. Gift a Knight and they might be more martial etc.

    The city develops based upon the resources in its region e.g. magic vs. trade.

    Perhaps diplomatic marriage - trade cities - you gain a foot hold in a new area with a new race, it costs you a city though. Donate wealth and units to help them expand explore and colonise - with payoffs - perhaps puppet the city. Not so much the bland Civ5 approach, but more a 'grandfather' role in helping a independent small empire develop.

  8. #38
    This thread is some sort of mixed up.

    Empires:
    I like the idea of having empires without a major sorcerer or a sorcerer which can become
    as powerfull as the main antagonists.

    But as mentionend in the information text it should be possible to win the game without
    the magic or the conquest path.
    Therefore it is only logical to allow the empires to rise which do not focus on these paths
    and even further to allow gamers even to play an empire which does not focus on magic
    but on some sorts of "anti-magic" powers as "drain magic", or not interfere with magic as
    technology, culture, money or fame.

    Lesser Races:
    This is big issue if you have to implement new army-types as you
    have to do a some or a lot of artwork for them.
    In case of the city map screen, i don´t think this will be a big problem.
    In Master of Orion 2 it was possible to mix up a lot of alien races on a planet
    which can implemented at this game, too.
    (In that game you only saw three different ground force styles.)
    It is not really explicable not to mix the population of different races as they could
    be held as "slaves" or live segregated in small parts of a city alike 19th century
    white europeans in colonized countries or as slaves in cities at the barbary coast.

    Teppic
    Last edited by Teppic; 07-17-2013 at 11:10 AM.

  9. #39
    Caster of the Inner Tower
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    I like the idea. It would be interesting to have some diplomatic options to deal with them, like trade agrements, or a protection pact (they give you some resources, but if they are attacked, you're automatically at war with the one who attacked them), and maybe after a while, or if you have enough fame, or if you give them enough money, or if you cast some spells, they could peacefully join your empire.

  10. #40
    Archmage of the Inner Ring ampoliros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kilobug View Post
    they could peacefully join your empire.
    I can see them wanting to be part of your empire peacefully, but I can't see you getting direct control of their cities via peaceful means. If they are vassals they would count as being conquered for the peaceful / domination victories.

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