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Thread: The Planes

  1. #31
    Long post because that is my character flaw.
    Also I am sure you have spent a lot of time on this already and don't need (or want) me telling you how to make a game, so I apologise for condesending, going off on a complete tangent, and so on. Its my hope that there is something useful here (Which might justify the time reading it)
    Some of the ideas are contradictory, others are complementary...Some are more in the realms of DLC than strictly about the planes.
    Also I apologise for typos, I have reread and retouched it twice, which is obviously no short task.



    Purely my interpretation of how the 3d array would look, with the glass spheres being transparent due to my lack of colour control =p. The elemental/life-death planes being marginally smaller than the material plane in that they have extruded some of their matter into the Prime plane (Either creating it, or giving texture to the 'void'/Prime plane). Possibly as the game progresses planes could grow (and shrink) in size, relative to their population, the amount of mana/nodes/spells cast, gobbling up the Prime plane, or even the other elemental planes*. Possibly one of the starting map modes could be along this frame.

    Anyway, it occurs to me that the desire for players to be able to visit the four elemental planes from the get-go could be accomodated if different planes extruded themselves into each other at the crossover point. This has already been hinted at with the 'Water Portal under water', but imagine if you go through the water portal and find yourself standing near/on a smallish island, or some sort of vent or underground cavern. That way you could visit the water plane without immediately drowning. You could even build a city on that tiny area, perhaps granting a research/building that allowed units to explore underwater.
    As an additional, you could fuse both ideas by, say, having an underwater cavern in the water plane which was isolated from the water (thus preventing exploration) by a wall, while having a dried out riverbed in the Prime plane. If you destroy the wall the water floods in, crosses the portal and fills up the dried out riverbed...possibly with serious consequences for anyone living there at the time. Adding a huge array of strategic choices. (While I think this may be terribly complex and thus undesirable, it could be simplified to a scripted event. I.E. Cast a spell/attack this rock and then all the tiles so marked become water/fire/whatever.)

    Likewise a portal between the Air and Water (if you decide to allow that) planes might have a small area of cloud which was isolated by the need to build a staircase down to the water. It would thus be difficult to 'Flood' the Air Plane.
    A portal between the Fire and Water planes (say if circumstances arise where this were possible, even if the original idea is precluded by them being on opposite sides of the 3d Array) might generate Earth and Air instead of Fire or Water in the first instance, though over time the Fire would die down, or the water be evapourated, allowing the Fire to feed on the Air, or Water to rest on the Earth, thus become dominate over time. (To continue the simplfied idea, there could just be a delay of a few turns between 'Lava', 'Rock' and 'Water')

    Life and Death (or Shadow and Light) could work in a similar way. Death spawning the eldrich horrors, Shadow reducing vision (or spreading a deathly fog), while Life spawns angels, pixies and so forth, Light increasing vision, providing seeds to spread life and so on. Both being sealed by wards (or not, as map mode dictates) so the shambling hoards don't overwhelm some players early on, while others are surrounded by bounty and every family has 20 children.
    The wards could be on the Prime Plane or on the other side. If they looked the same, so you don't know what you are getting when you open it, some might take a gamble and die horribly, while others might build up a huge army to discover bounty.
    I would also suggest a way of spreading the darkness (For Necromancers) and for destroying the Light (anyone of an evil bent...Or someone who is just commited to one of the elemental planes), and visa versa, of course.

    I do foresee somewhat of a problem if the strict 3d array is not followed. Most of the talk seems to assume that it will, but as mentioned
    During game creation you'll more than likely be able to pick the number of planes (from 1 to max) and control what planes may be created and whether or not a plane can “repeat”.
    Thus you may have 3 Fire Planes, the Prime Plane and 1 Water Plane. Unless it was scripted that Fire and Water Planes couldn't mix (or that no plane could mix with any bar the Prime plane) then you could have Fire developing an overwhelming advantage over Water. Under my scheme there might be breaks on this as the portals might join up, and you might have a pool of lava on the water plane, but protected by a wall, and it may be a very interesting late game development to have the hoards unleashed.
    In other schemes there may be a small degree of silliness in travelling from Underwater to Boiling heats and not being affected. Likewise that there is no interaction between the two planes may be immersion breaking. Finally if elementals could pass through portals it may be the case they are instantly/after a short while, destroyed. Creating an issue with luring (a sound strategy, though some might say 'cheap'), as well as faceslapping moments when your AI ally either doesn't accompany you when you cross the portal, or charges headlong into their destruction...possibly accompanied by Into the valley of death they rode...

    --------

    In terms of content of the different planes, I would like to see something beyond loot, new monsters and somewhere new to build. It is invariably the case that, in other games, you cross to the new plane, plonk down a new city and feel rather smug that your old tactics work just as well here as they did back on the old plane.
    For someone just looking to distract themselves for a couple of hours, and then win, this may be enough. For the hardcore gamer (Or, like me, the average gamer with a penchant for empire building) one begins to wonder what the point of it all is, when frequently your empire fits adequately into the first Plane, so what follows is an attempt to make other Planes attractive, without just littering them with loot...I.E. Making it possible to 'Master' the style of fighting on a different plane, without mastering them all. After that is some general points about different planes.

    Air Plane:
    It would be rather interesting to see cities (and units) on the Air Plane have a weight limit so that they could crash through the clouds and be lost forever. It might be the case that for the 'few hour' gamer, this simply resolved in 'Unsettlable' or 'Impassable' tiles, while for the hardcore gamer it gives you no warning, your units just disappear with a Civnet style 'Your Heavy Swordsman has been lost due to thin cloud cover'. Though obviously cities should have a counter or some kind, else it would just be cruel.
    As alluded to, building cloud cities is my impression, though I like the idea of floating Islands too. It could certainly be the case that there was a mix, with cloud cities either acting as auxillary cities, or as hubs between the Island cities, or as resource intensive builds (I see turbines sticking out of the side of the city and eventually crossing to the material plane).
    This latter idea might be too complex to pull off, though could be simplified as AI colonies or something, cruising around the Air Plane, acting as traders, mercenaries, or raiders. Representing tough cookies to crack, but streaming out endless reinforcements (and stealing resources whenever they land) which make them worthwhile to crack. Perhaps they supply you with research when you destroy them too.

    Water Plane:
    It would be interesting to see cities (and units) on the Water Plane require a supply column, which may or may not be automated, to keep them in oxygen. At the same time they might provide a superabundance of food in the early period, but as time goes on this superabundance tails off as your hungry settlers eat everything around them. Likewise the ability to use some sort of bacteriological warfare...You send out your poisoner, who sets up a trash pile upwater of the enemy city and it leaches poison onto them. Or maybe you do it to yourself by accident, with a tech becoming avaliable that allows you to chart water flow. While I think on it 'Who would ever build a city underwater until they had that tech?' and I though 'Maybe settlers start with that ability' and was ok with that idea...But then I thought 'What if currents speed you up (or slow you down) depending on which way you move along them?' You send your scout to swim around, make a mental map (or in paint) and then build a city, secure in partial knowledge.
    (I see a small issue for pathfinder algorithms though, since they might give away the positions of the currents, or else give the player faulty information)

    Fire Plane:
    While I was reading through the various posts before this one I was struck by the idea that 'What water there is is Sulphuric acid'. Which suggested to me three things: 1) There is no water for drinking 2) There are no plants 3) Acid Rain.
    While supply columns for water jumps out, I hate repeating ideas, so instead of that I would suggest that population growth was hobbled until filters could be made, or some sort of extractor. However when combined with there being no plants I wonder where they are getting food from in the first place. So perhaps it could be the case that tiles need to be terraformed before they could be settled, and there is an 'endless' battle with 'nature' to reclaim those terraformed tiles. This battle could be mitigated by a single convoy from the Prime Plane (Bringing a small amount of fertile earth), along with a cheap little building (a greenhouse) which provides enough food to keep 1 bushel (Civnet wise) coming into the city, and thus the city doesn't starve itself into destruction, though would be fairly weak.
    This still leaves the problem of water, without which the greenhouse would dry up and the city would starve (assuming it had no other sources of food). I would suggest it was built by the settler when the city was originally built, but could be attacked (either by espionage, by simply attacking the city or by the Acid Rain clouds discussed below), which meant it needed to be rebuilt.
    The Acid Rain element could be a penalty to units. Either as a flat -1 HP to unarmoured troops and a -1 Defence/Attack penalty to armoured troops as their weapons/armour is damaged, or as a variable figure as AR clouds move about the map (as unattackable (at the start)) entities.

    Earth Plane:
    The obvious limitation here is the mountainous terrain and potential lack of water/food. Though these don't really complicate matters (any more than settling in a hilly area in Civ). The threat of Earthquakes has been mentioned, and I would like to add the threat of cave ins. Not as 'Your city disappears, hardcheese', but as a mixed blessing...Revealing possibly hidden tunnels (underworld map!), as well as damaging units and cities which happen to be caught in them, and moving them into the tunnel. Clearly there should be a way for players to tell if their city is likely to fall into a hole, either via a tech, or by a geologist unit that roams about and provides a small overlay of risk areas.
    I would also like to see these tunnels offering up random events, such as golems/dwarves appearing, to destroy/trade. The Golems being made of various materials, providing different levels of Damage Resistance and reward. As ever Hardcore gamers (only) may appreciate a Golem smashing its way through the exploration party, and chasing the one survivor back to the city and then smashing that too.


    Life Plane:
    Perhaps the most drastic change that could be proposed here is the idea that fighting wasn't possible anymore...This is paradise right? Units sent to the Life Plane have a chance of being made pacifists, not just there, but everywhere. On the one hand it ensures an Empire that settled there could not ever be totally defeated (unless the Life Plane was flooded with Lava, or something sneaky), but if they were reduced to just the Life Plane then their ability to wage war would be destroyed (Since all their recruited units would be pacifists). The benefit of this? Well you could go for a non-combat victory without having to worry, as much, about getting attacked. I know Cultural Victory is synomous with cheating, but you could always turn that option off. I am in two minds about defence abilities being left intact, since, if they were, there would still be a small chance of a rush by the enemy succeeding before their units were pacified. If not then cities may be unconquerable on the Life plane...leading to stagnation.
    At anyrate, pacifists might also gain enhanced vision (See the light), or the plane might produce an item/resource that allows other units to see further. Similarly taking cuttings from the Life Plane might allow the paradisification of your cities (lots of food without the pacifist effect).

    Death Plane:
    While it would make sense to have units constantly damaged by the death plane, and then come back as skeletons, one must be cautious about making the necromancer obscenly powerful. If you can build a small army, use it to defeat another, already weakened army, then use a 'Control undead' type spell, as a result get two armies (or at least 1 and a bit armies) then you have gained a 3-1 or 2-1 advantage over whoever you were fighting (assuming they have an army left). Moreover you can then rest on your laurels and build/research for the end game while everyone else is struggling in the mid-game.
    As such my suggestion would be that units which died on the Death Plane, instead of coming back as Skeletons, recovered after a short while (When no one was in sight range) as 'Darkhearted' individuals, who are as willing to fight anyone, as well as each other. (If there is XP for these fellows then the last man standing may have considerable abilities). I am in two minds as to whether it should always be a fight to the second death, since everyone needs followers, but a band of low level characters is...ehhh....
    As already mentioned by others a reduced sight radius would be a good idea too, especially if those who spent extended periods there gained the ability to overcome that.
    In addition I have noticed that, frequently (particularly while playing Warlords 2, I think) that a map reaches a certain point where you have looted and defeated all the enemies on it. Perhaps, if Heroes (or Spellcasters) are the 'Darkhearted' Surviors they would take themselves off to some mountains on the Death Plane and spend a few dozen turns building a new citadel, or tower, creating new loot and new enemies to threaten civilisation as we know it. Since these are (hopefully) the best of the defeated armies (who, themselves, were not to be sniffed at) they should scale in power as the game goes on...launching forays against other surviours and such, growing in prospective power (and lootability).
    Perhaps quite importantly building cities on the Death Plane either requires you to send body convoys back home, or risk them rising from their graves, either to attack, or to join various citadels out there. (Necromancers are spared this)

    Prime Plane:
    There has to be some reason, besides extra spells and loot, to leave the Prime Plane. My suggestion here is that the Prime Plane is, either, dying or shrinking (Depending on the game mode (With the option that actually everything is fine)). Spells should exist to hold back the advance of this degradation, and certainly to remove whole areas of land to other planes. I would suggest that the spell to move cities allows for 1*1 tiles to be moved relatively cheaply (and is discovered by event, rather than research), while larger selections (up to 5*5) could be moved for vast amounts of magic/money/production.
    In the 'Dying' game mode the land simply becomes barren, the magic nodes deplete, and so on and so forth. The cities don't become entirely useless, or fall into the abyss, but they face diminishing returns.
    In the 'Shrinking' game mode the land begins to fall away. The players get 'Our magicians have been thinking about it and they think the Prime Plane is being torn apart' and 'While it would be hard to do, we think we can evacuate some of our cities' before this happens, and its not Turn 99 everything is fine, turn 100 90% of the map is gone, the change should be cumulative over 30-40 turns (I play on Marathon/Epic, on Civ, so scale appropriately =P)), or at least twice the length of time it would take an average Empire to be able to teleport a few cities out (Or one at 3*3), so that they have about 3 times as long as neccessary to get out of there, if they want to run the risk of their city disappearing into the abyss just to get that 5*5 instead of 4*4.
    In addition to 'forcing' (as before there should be a game mode where everything is fine) the player to explore the other planes it also suggests to more experianced players that they could benefit from settling out there already, having supply lines for oxygen, or having staked out the Floating Islands already (I would imagine you need to deploy a beacon to lock onto for the transport, rather than crushing someone else's cities...Though hardcore mode =P), or having a way to deal with the Acid Rain clouds. As well as the normal 'I want the city to actually be somewhere useful.'
    In the 'Shrinking' mode 5-10% of the Prime Plane remains intact, and carries a couple of benefits, such as far decreased magic casting costs, increased XP gain...once things settledown. Those who opted to stay behind, and were not destroyed should gain some sort of extra bonus, as they are clearly favoured by the RNG!
    As an optional (I am skeptical as to this would work) extra those who are very far down the research route could preserve areas of the Prime Plane, and in the Mid-Late game reclaim parts of it.

    Other thoughts:
    What I would really really like to see is for different planes to have unique units and unique techs. It follows that someone who has spend the last 400 years on the water plane, but hasn't researched THAT much, should be somewhat better at water plane fighting than someone who has spent the last 400 years in the library. Maybe you only need a city in the X-Plane to gain access to the unique techs, maybe research generated on that plane can be used to research those unique techs.
    Or maybe to gain access to those techs you need a hero of a certain level/with certain abilities that can only be gained on that plane. It follows from this that they would also be able to recruit/build unique units. To continue our analogy, if I have spent 400 years on the water plane I should know something about those who inhabit it, and hopefully I have made friend with them more than someone who has just appeared with a sack full of gold. (though hiring mercs would be cool too =p)

    Some of the discussion so far has touched on the idea that Fire magic should be stronger on the Fire Plane, or at least cheaper, or that you should gain bonuses if you control parts of the Fire Plane. My view is that creatures born (aka units recruited) on that plane should gain inherant bonuses, and magic should be reduced in cost relative to the amount of the related plane you control.
    For instance if I build a Crusader on the Fire Plane, in my mind, they should deal some fire damage and be fire resistant because they would have fire glyphs on their sword, the iron the sword was made from would be magically imbued with fire, the grain they made their bread out of would be of the fire plane. Everything about them should exude fire magic. If I built the same Crusader on the Water Plane they would deal extra Cold/Hydraulic damage for the same reasons.
    Likewise if I sent them to the Water Plane to do battle with my arch-nemesis, the Sea, I would expect them to be weaker as they were breath air imbued with water magic, treading on rock (or swimming through water) imbued with water magic, and unless I implemented some advanced logistic system to supply them with fire bread, eating kelp imbued with water magic.
    My Crusader might still do extra damage to the enemy, as Fire is the opposite of Water, but that extra damage would be reduced since their standard damage would be reduced. While my enemy would still be gaining all their original bonuses from their kelp.
    So I would have two-three choices. I could build a vast army, take the extra loses, and destroy the enemy that way. I could build a city on the water plane, research water tech for my Fire Crusaders and build Water Crusaders to nullify the penalties, and keep the bonuses...Or I could invade the Air Plane, build Air Crusaders and invade the Water Plane without the penalty, but without the bonus either.

    Likewise I think that the amount of Fire Plane territory held should increase the power of Fire magic, but also the cost, while being on the Fire Plane should reduce that, and research(or Hero abilities...or even just longevity on the Fire Plane) should reduce that on the Fire Plane too.
    As such I am master of the Fire Plane, with far more powerful fire spells than my fellow casters, cast at a lower cost than they can manage on the Fire Plane. But if I journey off to the Water Plane I am hit twice, as I lose my research/abilities/longevity(While off of plane) AND I feel the increased cost of the more powerful spells. (As well as any penalties for opposed magical school)
    If I control two planes then my research is split between them (or at least I don't gain anything for my Fire research from the empire on the Air Plane, though ideally it would stack up as general research points for later use, elsewise what is the point of conquering new lands?)

    While not limited to these ideas (And certainly they could be built into a Civ style tech tree, rather than just name abilities) I would therefore expect the Fire Tech Tree to include:
    Air Magic (On the Fire Plane) (Decreasing cost)
    Earth Magic (On the Fire Plane) (Decreasing cost)
    Fire Magic (On the Fire Plane) (Decreasing cost)
    Water Magic (On the Fire Plane) (Decreasing cost)
    Fire Exploitation (Increasing the bonus from territory I held)
    Fire Unique Units (Lava Slinger, Thermal Glider, Steel Units, Firecrackers, etc)
    Acid Rain Protection
    Fire Ecology (To somehow get food out of brimstone)
    Sulphur Mine
    Acid Rain Creation (Either as a unit or as an ability)
    Ability to Walk On/Row Across Lava
    Natural Furnaces (Better weapons)
    Lava Canals (To feed lava through portals, or to irrigate my brimstone...or build a moat/highway)


    On Races and Micro Planes:
    My final point, honest.
    Over the course of writing this I have read and reread the thread thus far, which may account for why I had so many ideas, and I returned to the first post and saw that I hadn't covered your specific questions.
    Non-Native races shouldn't need to build anything in particular, in fact I would go as far as saying that a race should be crafted from the experiances in game, as much as their presets. Obviously if you allowed us to play Fire Elementals then I would expect heafty penalties for trying to fight in the Water Plane, but suppose we expanded this line of thought. Unless the Fire Elemental immediately/gradually died they would adapt to those circumstances...They might develop a earthy/glassy crust that protected them from the water, and gave them a degree of protection against attacks. (Which also slowing them down, but lets ignore that)
    Drawing on DnD, if I built a Dwarf it would have a naturally low Charisma. If I then invested my points into increase its Charisma I could make it a servicable Bard. Likewise if, over the course of my adventurers I used my stat increases to boost my Charisma, and items which boosted it as well, I would develop into a Bard in no time at all.

    While a 'Racial' Tech Tree might be a Tech Tree too far, considering the 7 (General and the planes) I have already proposed, a system similar to Civ 5s (Much as I dislike it for dumbing down) social policies system might be an idea. (It could even fold part of the different Planes' tech tree/hero abilities into it) Alternatively it could be based on Crusader Kings (And Civ 4) where events have a chance of triggering character (in this case Racial) developments.
    For instance "My Lord, a competition is being held in one of the local villages, and they have asked that you give out the cup for the prize winning marrow" with responces ranging from:
    "I would be delighted" - Gain the "Benevolent King" Trait (+1 Happiness in all cities)
    "I shall enter, myself" - Gain the "Competative Streak" Trait (-10% Research in Capital, +20% Food in your Capital)
    "Tell the peasants to get back to work." - Gain the "Harsh Taskmaster" Trait (-8 Happiness in Capital, +10% Production in all cities)
    "Have the mayor flayed alive" - Gain the "Torturer" Trait (-2 Happiness in Capital, +4 Damage in Battles)
    "Use the peasants' marrows as target practice" - Gain the "Practical Joker" Trait (-1 Happiness in Capital, +1 Research in Capital)

    Or
    "My Lord the [Insert rival here] are building a new weapon, what should we do?"
    "Redouble our efforts to build a better one" - Gain "A Race of Scientists" (Provides a research bonus of 500 points)
    "Launch a first strike" - Gain "Shot first, Asked Questions Later" (Launches an immediate war with rival and gain 500 production points in City X)
    "Approach them diplomatically" - Gain "The Great Appeaser" (+4 to relations with X and gain happiness, but lose 100 Research points)
    "We are doomed" - Gain "Doomsayer" (+12 Happiness if your rival declares war, -4 damage to all enemies, until you beat them)
    "Launch an intelligence operation" - Gain "Thats Not Right..." (Lose a random unit, and your Rival loses all research on current tech)

    Or
    "My Lord, we have arrived on the Fire Plane. The sheep are on fire, the baggage train is on fire and, AH, I am on fire"
    "RUN AWAY" - Gain "Factor 50 wasn't enough" (-5 racial Weakness to Fire)
    "This amuses me" - Gain "Cruelty is a virtue" (Lose your unit)

    Micro-Planes:
    I like the idea, but it seems to have a limited lifespan. Once you have investigated the portal, claimed the treasure, and possibly plonked down a city, what else is there to do in these micro-planes? Certaintly there is some value in them as a final redoubt in the event overwhelming defeat...But if the defeat was so overwhelming that we were unable to stop them driving us from our capital city, there seems little hope for one city matching the enemy research capacity. At the same time there is little to stop the enemy charging through the portal, and unless we spent a serious amount of time fortifying it, and outfitting it with crack troops (Which might explain why we lost the war) they are just as liable to sweep it before them. Conversely when we are hunting down their last city we are looking for 1 tile amongst dozens, which, if it is hard to spot (though sometimes even if it is not) takes time.
    The obvious answer to that is to provide the micro-planes (or some of them at least) with additional bonuses, for instance a large thunder cannon aimed at the entrance. However such a bonus, again, has a limited effect as the only time it can be used (unless the portal happens to be deep inside enemy territory) is if the enemy has overrun a large part of your empire, which suggests that, in the long term, you are doomed. Additionally, if we are to have any chance to storm the enemy micro-plane city the weapon must have a weakness...for instance it fires every 3 turns.


    An alternative could be something like the Palace/Throne Room from Civ/2...We create a micro-plane with just about everything we would want on, potentially trying out different research ideas on them (assuming we were master of the plane), and just generally give us a sense of achievement. Also as passages between point X and point Y, kind of wormhole like.

    Personally I prefer my Death Plane Surviours idea, since they provide a long term challange, as opposed to a short term reward. If the ancient treasure is too powerful then we become too powerful and outclass our enemies, if it isn't that powerful, but fairly useful, then why not place it in a goody hut. Suppose we have played the game a few times, and we know that the micro-planes never have an enemy on them, they thus become a small area to search for treasure (and potentially miss)...or to deliever lore, or to encounter racial shaping events. While the first time we find a micro-plane it is a thrill to be sure, the second and third time? They start becoming an elongated goody hut, which our scout auto-explores without our attention.
    If there are enemies then they get some longevity, we explore the micro-plane, find the enemy and then dispatch an army. With luck we are just sufficent to defeat them and it is an enjoyable experiance. But once that enemy is defeated the micro-plane becomes so much empty space again.
    If the Micro-Planes were formed by the 'Shrinking' of the Prime Plane then the idea that they could be returned enters into the mind. Alternatively if they were not formed by the Shrinking, but could be returned to the Prime Plane, then it combines both ideas...The Micro-Planes can have their ancient temple, with ancient dead god and ancient treasure, and once that is looted, could be used to replace lost land on the Prime Plane, which could be populated in the normal way. As well as allowing a limited degree of Palace/Throne Room building, if everything, bar the temple, could be retiled as we saw fit (Within some limits, of course, surrounding a city with iron, pigs and sugar would tend towards the silly and gamebreaking)
    Another thought occurs that rather than providing a powerful weapon directly to us, it could be a legacy weapon, which becomes more powerful as the hero we give it to levels in power, reaching closer to whatever the legacy is...We could gain clues as to what this legacy is by examining the temple. For instance if the temple is devoted to ritual bloodletting we might concieve that we need to sacrifice units at the altar using the weapon, and this provides the hero with new abilities. (Ideally more complex than that, but you know)
    Of course that sacrifice might just be enough to raise that old God, who may be vengeful, or may be thankful. We may not wait to find out and may try to enslave it first!

    Anyway, I think I am more or less done, so enjoy, criticise, destroy and take as you wish.

    --------------


    *In the simplified scheme it could simply be that every so often a counter ticks over and decides to change one or two tiles to whatever is dominate (either globably or just on that plane). So if we imagine a world with 1 Plane, the Prime, to account for both of these possibilities.
    It starts at 0/0/0/0/0/0/100 (Life, Death, Fire, Earth, Air, Water, stays the same)
    Someone casts a fire spell, which adds 1 to the fire count and reduces the 'stays the same' count by 1.
    The counter ticks over and the computer rolls a d100 and, unsuprisingly reaches a number less than 99. The 'Stays the same' count increases by 12 (effectively 1) and the others decrease by 2 (So fire loses 1).
    Before the next time the counter ticks over, alot of fire magic is cast(400), bringing the score up to 20.
    The counter ticks over and the computer rolls, and gets an 80. *some* tiles tick over to being on Fire/Desert/Brimstone/Lava/Whatever. The 'Stays the same' count increases by 5, the others (except fire) decrease by 2, and Fire increases by 5. (So effectively nothing happens, since none of the other scores have anything in)
    Ideally there is some method of ensuring the tiles are not scattered so far and wide as they are incongruous. They could, for instance, be weighted to appear close to where the fire magic was cast. (So sitting behind your castle walls is less of an option! Though I do think there should be a way to revert the tile, given some time.)

    There is some complexity in that, supposing a lot of Water magic was then used. Does the Water take percentage points from 'Stays the same' or Fire? Ideally this would be chosen randomly, but weighted to favour the lower score(s) (Thus cancelling to some degree). So say we have 0/0/20/0/0/0/80, there would be a 80% chance it would be Fire that took the hit, and 20% that 'Stays the same' would.
    Added complexity with multiple figures, say 1/5/20/4/20/50 was the state of affairs and sufficent water magic was used to require that score be increased from 20 to 21. Now first we must discard the water figure...it cannot take from itself. Then...

    (and I am terribly at maths so forgive me if there is a simpler way to do this. Numbers accurate to 1 Decimal Place due to human accounting, if it were done by a machine then there would be greater accuracy.)

    Say 100-X for each of the numbers. So 99/95/80/96/50. (The totals of these numbers is: 420)
    Then divide each by 420, for 23.6/22.6/19/22.4/11.9 (Total 99.5)
    So the rolls would be 1-25/26-49/50-69/70-92/93-105 (Cancelling to 93-100, due to rounding. This can either be alleviated by larger 'dice' rolls, say d1000, allowing for a higher degree of accuracy. Or something else. Or having a minimum 'Stays the same' score.)

    Somehow this footnote grew out of all proportion, but a final point. 1 Fire Spell would be enough to increase it the count to 1, with the square of the number (1, 4, 9, 16, 25, etc to 10,000) being the total required...So only 10,000 total for 100. Though of course casting 10,000 fire spells without any other magic may be difficult.
    Last edited by Archimage; 02-20-2013 at 11:36 PM.

  2. #32
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    Wow, thank you. I thought mine were long but you've made my posts look short. That must have taken you a lot of effort and it's quite frankly impressive. I have no idea what it says yet but I'm going to print it and read it all.

  3. #33
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    116
    I am also going to read it later, but that's one hell of a forum entrance.

  4. #34
    Minor idea:
    Food and Hammers (and happiness?) on the Death Plane could be dependant on the number of units being killed (either per turn, or in the last 10/100 turns) across all planes.
    Giving the forces on the Death Plane a reason to engage in reckless war (and all the normal evilness), while giving the forces a life a reason to heal everyone...the less that die the less powerful the Death Plane beings are.
    Always the risk of runaway freight train though.


    Also thanks for the welcome =D

  5. #35
    Archimage, that was quite a post! And quite a read

    You offered up a number of interesting ideas (too many to reply to point by point at the moment. I'm actually supposed to be back at coding right now, but I wanted to reply to you first.) As the planes begin to take firmer shape we'll flesh out the details, taking all these things into account as we make decisions. I need to start a post for each one and highlight the ideas I find the most interesting. It's just a matter of finding time.

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