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Thread: The Mighty Draconians

  1. #31
    Neophyte Sorcerer
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    Draconian:
    Great for early expansion through conquering other cities and exploration. Slowest population growth.

    Bonuses:
    City: Higher mana production.
    Combat/Units: All units fly/swim and have fire or poison breath attacks. Better Defense than humans for starting units. Strong magic attack for “magician” units (i.e. Doombolt?).

    Drawbacks:
    City: Slow population growth. Cannot build ships/boats. (although I do like the suggestion of "Dragon Turtles" being their ship.)
    Combat/Unit: Do not use armor. Take fall damage. (Really like that idea for tactical combat.)

    Special Unit*:
    Elder Drake – Requires high food/monetary and/or mana upkeep.
    Only 1 Elder Drake per Wizard at a time.
    Poison Breath/Fire Breath attack, ranged AoE and DoT. Immune to mind-controlling effects.
    Cannot be "flanked". Can Attack with tail for units behind.
    *Need a Drake Lair(or whatever building); only buildable in Wizards’ Capital, main draconian race.


    *****
    I should have just posted the racial suggestions in all the individual race threads. Rather than in the general Faction thread.

    Although I would say that perhaps Flame Strike might be a better candidate for the "magician" unit.

    @Asmodai
    Being that we don’t know how ships are going to work, I come from the perspective of “until I hear it isn’t like MoM, I’m acting as if it is just like it.” There is plenty of deviation; we all do our best to incorporate the differences that we do know.

    As for all draconian units being able to fly being unbalanced, it very well may be (obviously play-testing will dictate). As Asmodai points out, other races can build ships. With MoM we had to be adjacent to a water tile.
    With city influence perhaps branching out farther, maybe it will be that we can build ships from a city that is within 5 tiles of a water tile or somesuch.

    Personally I am now of the mindset that the lower tier units being more “Lizardmen” like, which would allow us to possibly “spontaneously promote” one of those units into a dragon disciple. I also second the idea of a champion unit being a “dragon disciple”, so that it can transform into a half-dragon, making a champion unit like "Fang the Draconian" from MoM make more sense.

    Either way, flying or swimming gives the draconian the ability to explore earlier without the need to build ships. It’s an early advantage. Sure they can build ships from conquering other nations, and they would need to in order to transport units from other factions.

    I am also of the opinion that swimming units should be able to swim across ocean tiles. As for now, as far as I know, there isn’t a differentiation from an ocean tile and a coastal tile (such as the coastal tile being less deep, and therefore units with swimming can swim across it but cannot swim over ocean tiles). If coastal tiles are different then it may make sense to have it so they can only swim across coastal tiles, but not ocean tiles. If this becomes the case, then it makes sense to have “Dragon Turtles” as their ships.

    In MoM Draconian also had Airships, which were cool because of the 4 flying speed. However they could only carry 2 units. They also had a decent range attack.

    With the “Early swimming Lizardmen/Dragon Turtle ships/Flying higher tier units” idea, I don’t feel there is a need for a second “ship” with draconians.

  2. #32
    Mage’s Assistant Belgariad87's Avatar
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    i too like mixing the lower tier reptiles in with the normal MoM draconians. Also, if you think about it there are many types of legitimate dragons, more than just flying ones who spit fire. The Great Wyrm in MoM and the Sea Dragons in Might & Magic are perfect examples of creative types of dragons. I hope you guys will take a good long look at all you're options (and talk to us about units) before setting the draconian units/abilities in stone.
    Malleus the Magician + Fang the Draconian = OP

  3. #33
    Since we're listing MoM as one of the inspirations, let's look at where the draconians fit in there:

    Draconians were essentially the ultimate mobility army in MoM - all of their units flew, they gained flying cavalry early on that was competitive with other races' Fantastic Stable cavalry, and had a 4-move flying catapult without needing to enchant it with Flight. The downside was that, of the Myrran races, they were the second most fragile (second only to Dark Elves that had ALL of the ranged attacks) - they lacked the extra health of beastmen, dwarves and trolls, and didn't have access to units with the sheer beat power of minotaurs, war trolls or hammerhands. One of their characteristics, though, was that while their military strength peaked relatively early on (with doom drakes and air ships) they were still one of the races that were able to build a university, and thus draconian cities could continue pulling their weight economically even if their military units started becoming obsolete. (As a note, 'drake' in Master of Magic is the generic term for dragons - Doom Drakes are clearly fairly weak on the draconic scale, but the top-end Great Drake and Sky Drake were also, well, drakes. While 'drake' often has connotations of being a weaker kind of dragon, strictly speaking 'drake' is simply a categorisation for four-legged dragons of the more classical form, as opposed to worms, wyverns, and other forms)

    Lizardmen were possibly the ultimate quick-establishment Arcanian race, especially on small land masses - they were able to spread across islands without worrying about ships and had relatively powerful units in the early game. Their downside, though, was that they had possibly the worst economy in the game and like all races that lacked universities (apart from sorcery barbarians...) they needed to use that early advantage to build a strong foothold or they would fall markedly behind.

    If you were to combine them, with initial lizardmen-like units building towards true draconians, then what you'd get is a fairly powerful and mobile early game phase, having a strong ability to expand and hit neutrals and opposing wizards on other continents. As the game progresses and you translate from 'lizardmen' mode to 'draconian' mode, though, you get the benefit of a stronger air force than anyone else - but at the cost of missing out on the powerful land-based creatures available to other races. This would give them a significant advantage in mobility and picking their battles, but they would have problems taking on strong enemy forces head-to-head.

    Belgariad also makes a good point - if you go through world dragon mythology, you can actually find a lot of legends of things that are clearly dragons but aren't the flying fire-breathing drakes that we're used to thinking of as dragons, which could serve as good bases for units. I'm pretty busy at the moment, but given a few weeks I could probably come up with a short list of candidates.

    (I would say, though, that while d20esque true dragons would be a bit powerful as a racial unit, I think it would be a shame for the draconians not to have something that fits the general profile of the winged firedrake)
    Last edited by Draxynnic; 04-25-2013 at 07:20 AM.

  4. #34
    Before any of us get too excited about making suggestions for any faction, we must remember the backers that bought in at the GIANT level. So far there are two, so they'll get to design whatever two factions they want. As a community we need to respect that and not build up expectations that would make the process of accomodating those backers any harder. (for the record, I'm backing at the KNIGHT level, so it's not like I'm protecting my own turf here or anything. Just wanted to point this out)

    Peace,

    -Troy

  5. #35
    Moderator Aldaron's Avatar
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    The new images for the draconians are great!



    “We don’t stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.”

    George Bernard Shaw

  6. #36
    Abecedarian Mage Trudd's Avatar
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    For what I see, I don't regret my vote for the 5th faction!!!! Nice job!

  7. #37
    Mage’s Assistant Belgariad87's Avatar
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    If those 2 pics are accurate, i may have a hard time playing other factions
    Malleus the Magician + Fang the Draconian = OP

  8. #38
    Oh, they're accurate. (Except that the wings aren't big enough. I keep telling Wojtek "Make em bigger!", lol.) Either way, it's going to be a fun race to play.

  9. #39
    Archmage of the Inner Ring ampoliros's Avatar
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    I hope the teacher won't make me go sit in the corner with the "Dunce" cap for this...
    On the Kickstarter page, I'm not a fan of the Draconian Mage concept pic. It reminds me of a cross between Sea Urchin and Carpetman from The Tick.
    I do really like the Draconian art from Update #16 Always Wanting More - except maybe not so spikey around the shoulders on the 3D model.

  10. #40
    Moderator Aldaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ampoliros View Post
    I hope the teacher won't make me go sit in the corner with the "Dunce" cap for this...
    On the Kickstarter page, I'm not a fan of the Draconian Mage concept pic. It reminds me of a cross between Sea Urchin and Carpetman from The Tick.
    I do really like the Draconian art from Update #16 Always Wanting More - except maybe not so spikey around the shoulders on the 3D model.
    I agree, but hopefully the new pics are what they're really going for.
    “We don’t stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.”

    George Bernard Shaw

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