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Thread: A Heroic Philosophy

  1. #21
    Moderator Asmodai's Avatar
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    I haven't reread every post in this thread so sorry if this doesn't help out but I would just like to point out some things:
    As I understand it:
    Units only level about 5ish levels (even heroes). It may not be exactly 5 but that's in the ballpark.
    There are two types of "Hero" units, one is called Hero and the other Champion.
    A starting Hero unit will likely be around D20 level 11 and go up to about 15 (again, not exact but you get the rough idea)
    A starting Champion unit will likely be around D20 level 16 and go up to 20.
    You aren't going to have dozens of heroes. So with only a handful of heroes and each one only capable of about 5 levels of advancement I don't think it's going to be too tedious, but that may just be me. It's not like you're leveling them from 1 to 20.
    As for power levels I believe the top tier city produced units are around a challenge rating of 11 (again, rough estimate) so a hero will be roughly similar in power to a top tier city produced unit although as heroes they may start with higher stats and also as heroes you can equip them with magic gear and such. The point being they won't be insanely powerful compared to the top tier city produced units (though they will be compared to base units like spearmen)
    On the other hand Champions will START out slightly more powerful than a fully leveled up top tier unit or even hero. These guys will be rare but when you get one it will be a huge thing as they are VERY powerful.

  2. #22
    Mage of the Inner Tower War Troll's Avatar
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    I think Factions should only be allowed one Champion so the unit is a figurehead of inspiration (or dread) to his troops, and whose death has real impact to the faction they belong to. Perhaps have a set number of turns after a champion dies where all troops under your command have slightly lower stats and cities begin to question your leadership and cause and have increased public disorder. They could also be capable of holding a unique faction emblem/artifact like a banner that can be captured or lost.

    Really make the unique and important, in other words.

  3. #23
    Archmage of the Central Tower Happerry's Avatar
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    I prefer the MOM champion system myself.

  4. #24
    Mage’s Assistant Belgariad87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kah-thurak View Post
    What I would like you to consider is how powerful the heroes in the game should be. If I remember correctly, in a MoM late game, Heroes were One Man Armies that could kill most oponnent units on their own. This was one of the few things I did not like about the game.
    Only if you knew how to do it... which i did know so i loved it
    Malleus the Magician + Fang the Draconian = OP

  5. #25
    Yeah, I have to say I really loved MoM's hero system. It took a lot of work to turn them into one man armies, so I felt it was very balanced. The only thing I would want to add would be more slots for magic items. Three was not enough IMHO.

  6. #26
    Mage of the Inner Tower Endless Rain's Avatar
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    I really want an OPTIONAL way to have total control over my hero's feats, spell selections, stats, multiclassing, prestige classes, possibly race and starting class, in-game. Making expert hero advancement and/or creation optional allows players who dislike it to simply turn never turn it on, thus solving the problems Aaron listed with custom heroes.
    This is my dream feature for the game and I will be a little disappointed if it is never added in, though I would be fine waiting for it to be added in DLC. There should also be basic hero advancement for people who like to customize their heroes but find expert too complex, difficult, or tedious.


    I personally do not like preset heroes as I feel they are a little too repetitive and think there should be an option to disable them and play with only procedural heroes.


    I like procedural heroes but believe there should also be an option to disable this as well for people who like to play exclusively preset heroes.


    There should be an option to disable heroes altogether for people who do not like them. An option to disable only champions, or only ordinary heroes would also be a good idea.


    I think heroes and champions should have separate limits. Limits on heroes and champions should be customizable, and have an option to be disabled.


    In multiplayer I think players should be able to choose different settings. For example Player A could choose non-customizable preset heroes only, Player B could choose expert hero advancement and procedural heroes only, and Player C could have basic character customization and all heroes available. The A.I. should be able to have any kind of hero available to at least one player.

    EDIT: This was my first post on the forums, if anyone is curious!
    Last edited by Endless Rain; 01-26-2014 at 01:52 AM.

  7. #27
    Acolyte
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    I wanted to comment on proposed numbers of Heroes and Champions in WOM.
    MOM had six slots available for Heroes & Champions - but with the scope of WOM that could include 7 realms, much larger maps, the possibility of underground and underwater enviroments, as well as dungeons and caves....
    The total area to explore and the numbers of enemies, cities, nodes, ruins etc rises perhaps 100 fold. You wont be able to get by with 6 to 10 heroes, you will need dozens - And I like that idea, but will conditions such as you cant stack unlimited numbers of Heroes in the same Army. What do you think?

  8. #28
    Archmage of the Inner Ring ampoliros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel Rawson View Post
    I wanted to comment on proposed numbers of Heroes and Champions in WOM.
    MOM had six slots available for Heroes & Champions - but with the scope of WOM that could include 7 realms, much larger maps, the possibility of underground and underwater enviroments, as well as dungeons and caves....
    The total area to explore and the numbers of enemies, cities, nodes, ruins etc rises perhaps 100 fold. You wont be able to get by with 6 to 10 heroes, you will need dozens - And I like that idea, but will conditions such as you cant stack unlimited numbers of Heroes in the same Army. What do you think?
    You may have a point there. I don't think it will be as large a problem as you say, certainly not 100 fold.

    The levels I've seen tossed about (in rough estimation, I admit) are trained units cap at level 5, heroes cap at level 15 and champions cap at level 20. I think the original idea was to have heroes and champions in the same pool of 6 per player, like MoM. (Don't panic, I do believe Wasteland is leaning towards more than 6.)

    There's a nice gap there at level 10, maybe spontaneous heroes cap at 10. Here's my idea that just hit me:
    * 6 Champions per player
    * 6 Heroes per player
    * 10 spontaneous heroes per player (heroes promoted from trained units)

    Now there will be more units to outfit with magical equipment so you don't have to smash so much on your anvil. And there will be more higher level units with which to go stomping around, without totally going crazy.

    For those worrying about balance, add a game selection option to limit one of each type of hero per stack.

  9. #29
    Apprentice
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    Champs will be level 20? That's awesome. They will be very powerful.

  10. #30
    Archmage of the Inner Ring ampoliros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ampoliros View Post
    Now there will be more units to outfit with magical equipment so you don't have to smash so much on your anvil.
    Which leads to a dev question... How large an inventory will your Fortress have for magical items? The 4 slots from MoM was really limiting, especially if the game kept giving you warriors/archers and all you found wands (for instance).
    Last edited by ampoliros; 05-09-2013 at 12:32 AM.

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