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Thread: Cross Circle Spells

  1. #1

    Cross Circle Spells

    Alright, this is another subject I've been wanting to talk about. The magic system in WoM is going to include two types of “overlap” spells. One is combo-spells that combine two spell effects like “Flaming Grease” which combines Produce Flame and Grease. The other is cross-circle spells which is the topic of this post. The idea is that most of the circles touch (except life and death which do not) and certain spells belong to two or more circles. For instance Lighting Bolt is a combination of Air and Water. Tornado might be Air and Earth. You get the idea. What I want is suggestions on how to flesh out this idea and sample spells highlighting proposed combinations. Also, I am considering having certain spells require different levels in different circles. So, you might have a spell that is “two parts water, one part earth”. I'm sure you have the concept.


  2. #2
    Moderator Asmodai's Avatar
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    Feb 2013
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    I don't really do magic very well (ironic I know since I love MoM and you're a wizard in it). I was hoping others would comment and I'm pretty much waiting to see how the system you've come up with actually plays (not confident I fully grasp the ins and outs of it).

    That said I believe you mentioned the combo-spells before and I think I may have misunderstood. Are you saying that you combine the effects BEFORE casting to make a new spell "Flaming Grease"? I thought when you mentioned it before you meant you cast the spell "grease" and then you cast a fire based attack on a tile that's been "greased" and the grease catches fire for a combined effect. (which I thought was real cool)

    I'm also not sure what you're asking here. Are you asking us to try to come up with creative new spells to add to the existing D20 SRD ones you plan to implement? I'm not sure I can come up with much that D20 hasn't already and trying to figure out where it goes if I did (level, schools, etc.) is beyond me. Are you asking for examples on how to map the existing D20 spells to the circles and such you've chosen to use (Air, Protection, etc)? I'm not sure how I'd do that, that's why I asked a while back why you didn't just use the schools from D20, to me creating a new categorization system for an existing spell list seems like a lot of work and well... I'm lazy. I have confidence that the combinations your system allows will enable cool new capabilities but I have no idea how you're going to do it, and I certainly don't envy you the task, rofl.

    Magic is a personal weakness of mine in games (I almost never play mages in role playing games) and I'm hoping others better versed in the topic chime in but I just hate seeing a dev created thread go with no replies so this is about all I got.

  3. #3
    This post does seem to be a little slow reply wise, lol.

    Combo-Spells like "Flaming Grease" are spells you will be able to research if you can research the base spells that would combine to make them. So, if you have the ability to research "Produce Flame" and "Grease" you will be able to research "Flaming Grease". It's tier is determined by the base spells that make it up. So, "Flaming Grease" will be a powerful tier 1 spell. Still, all this is actually another topic.

    What I wanted to talk about here were spells that could be considered "Cross Circle". For instance I think "nature" spells (barkskin, entange, etc.) should require two or more elemental circles to research. In order to become a nature mage you would take tiers in the air, earth, fire and water circles. I want to come up with more cross circle ideas. Like steam spells that require water and fire for instance.

    It seems this is an area I may not get a lot of feedback to start with. I think that after I flesh out the idea a bit we may get more suggestions.

  4. #4
    Moderator Asmodai's Avatar
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    I think when I asked before what you meant by "Life" in life plane (good vs nature) you told me you meat good and that to you the nature plane was the prime material plane because it's where the four elements (air, eath, fire, water) come together. I actually found that to be an AWESOME concept and after I heard it seemingly so obvious though somehow I never thought of it myself. That said I would think that the ranger/druid exclusive "nature" spells would require an equal combination of all four elements. A pre-made nature wizard would thus have an equal allotment of all four elements. I REALLY like the concept, it's such an eloquent solution but the fact I never though of it just shows how bad I am at this magic stuff. Sorry I can't provide more feedback.

  5. #5
    Well, that's the basic idea. Nature is equal parts Air, Earth, Fire and Water. I'm glad you like the concept. I makes sense to me

  6. #6
    Mage’s Assistant
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    Feb 2013
    Some stuff:

    Fire + Necromancy = Banefire, fire that shrivels flesh and makes people grow old.(level drain possibly?)
    Destruction + Protection = A shield spell that destroys all that touches it(cancels magic cast on the unit, deals damage to attackers, etc)
    Mentalism + Earth = Ability to see all of the map, or moving units(non-flying).
    Earth+ Augmentation = Leylines, can create conduits of magical power to the earth("roads" for magical energy), boosting caster levels of own units near where a leyline leads.
    Death + mentalism = Create a zone(square) where mental activities are hard or impossible(spell casting or smart units work poorly, elementals and zombies and constructs are unhindered, as are magical items like wands and the like that require no mental effort)
    Fire + Augmentation = Turn terrain properties closer to fire, rivers turn into lava flows, iron ore into gems, and such.

    If you want broader cross circle categories, there's a nice table based on AD&D planar theory here:

  7. #7
    Good ideas and information!

  8. #8
    Moderator Aldaron's Avatar
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    Feb 2013
    Buenos Aires, Argentina
    Some ideas:

    Elemental circle + Summoning= Fire/Air/Earth/etc Elementals (Using just summoning you could create astral constructs or something like that). For life and death you could summon Angels, Ghouls, etc.

    Elemental circle + Protection = Protections against Evil/Good/Fire/etc

    Earth + Destruction = Crystal Shard

    Air + Destruction = Acid Fog

    Air + Protection = Wind Wall (if you change air for earth you could cast Wall of Stone and with a higher level Wall of Iron.

    Air + Augmentation = Gaseous Form

    The problem I see with the system is that if I continue to make pairings few spells will be from one circle alone. For example: Earth + Augmentation = Stoneskin (or later Body of Iron), but what will that leave for Earth alone? That's unless you force the mages to choose a number of circles from both the elemental pool and the effect circles. This makes even more sense if every spell is cross circle.

  9. #9
    Those are some good suggestions.

    I also see your point about every spell ending up "cross circle" in some way or another, but I think we can work around that. For instance we plan to allow you to summon fire elementals if you have a high enough tier in Fire or Summoning. In fact, if you have one tier in Fire and one tier in Summoning you will be able to summon a tier 2 fire elemental (just for example). That is part of the bonus of taking both circles. But your combination idea is also good, we just need to flavor it up. Say that Fire + Summoning = Summon Salamander (the fire one, not the lizard one, lol.) Combining the two gives you access to something a bit more "rare" than you would get with one or the other.

    Also, take your Elemental Circle + Protection example. Protection is going to give you access to generic protection spells. The idea that you could use Life + Protection to get resistance to death spells if very flavorful.

    I know the magic system could become overly complicated if we let it. That's exactly why we're discussing these things. We want a magical system that has depth, not one that is burdened with unnecessary complexity.

  10. #10
    Abecedarian Mage Trudd's Avatar
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    Feb 2013
    Bordeaux (France)
    I think, the simpliest way is that:
    for exemple summon fire elemental (set level 6, i don't really know the exact level, but it doesn't matter).
    You can learn it if you are :
    - lvl 6 in fire
    - lvl 6 in summoning
    - or a mix of the two , with maybe a -1 level if you have the two circle (lvl3 in fire and 2 in summoning, for exemple)

    Doing so, you have more generic spell with the "planar" circle, and more specific spell in the "skill" circle but more difficult to resist too.
    Because if you are fire immune, the fire wizard will have great difficulties and the summon wizard could adapat it (water elemental). you cannot be "summon" immune...

    I don't know if i'm very clear, but it is a simple way to play
    Last edited by Trudd; 03-06-2013 at 02:24 PM.

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