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Thread: I Am Golem

  1. #21
    Moderator Asmodai's Avatar
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    I like the Ram idea if we're going with animals, or even a bull. Either is known for charging and if it's a Cavalry replacement (clearly Heavy being made of stone or metal) then I assume it is to go head to head with lances. Again I could go either way about a Dwarf riding it and part of me still wants a non-animal construct but a Rune inscribed stone/metal ram or bull would be leaps and bounds above a Dwarf riding a boar. Of course it's Aaron we've got to convince not me.

  2. #22
    We really have to convince all of us You know me, I'll probably just open it to a vote. I'm like a kid in a candy store. It all looks good. I need help making up my mind...

  3. #23
    Archmage of the Central Tower Happerry's Avatar
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    Sooo.. Anyone want another army list? Besides the Astrals, I was thinking about the Golems.. and mainly I was thinking people were getting too distracted by the thread name. There are more types of constructs then just Golems after all.

    This Army List assumes that the constructs are being built by a racially undefined magocracy instead of being self willed or self powering. As such they still eat food and trade with gold. The golems themselves may be powered with mana, however, instead of eating food themselves, allowing much higher amounts of population to be dedicated to non farming professions. Just don't run out of mana if you want your armies to stay moving.

    All golem units start out by being made out of steel, but with proper facilities and access to raw resource nodes, can instead be made out of adamantite or other such metals. On the other hand, being constructs, they do not gain experience, are not effected by morale, and can not produce spontaneous heroes. Well, except for the two units that have living people in them. (Three counting the settler unit.)

    Also importantly, neither do they heal naturally, being dependent upon a city or a living smith's ability to put them back together after a fight. But then, the members of the Golem Guild consider that a far trade for not being stabbed themselves.

    Caravan Forge : The Heart and soul of the Golem Guilds are the Forges, and at the center of each city lies its first forge, the very location where a caravan decided to settle down and start production.

    Yay colony units. Even golems have them, though their version is more centered around making new places to build them.. Being Forges, these units have a very limited ability to make repairs on their escorts, but until they settle themselves down they lack the proper facilities for full scale rebuilding efforts.

    Hollow Armor : Animated suits of plate mail armor, armed with a longspear and driven on by a driving will utterly uncaring to their potential causalities, the sight of their utterly implacable ranks marching in perfect step with one another towards an enemy has broken armies before. Of course, if you don't break, they still have a spear, and while they lack any great skill, they possess a great and untiring strength..

    So, Animated Objects, in the form of living suits of armor, these make up the most basic forces of the construct army. They may posses no great skill, but brute strength and perfect discipline combine to make them more then capable of stabbing many enemies to death. Armed with a longspear.

    Iron Riders : As for the infantry, so for the cavalry. A horrid merging of the armors of man and horse, the iron Riders combine a horses barding below the waste.. and a knight's armor above. Like their infantry version, they have no great passion or skill, but great strength and an unbending obedience that makes them more then deadly enough foes.

    So, More animated armor! This time armed with a lance and a brace of javelins. The army's only, and slowish, cavalry force. They can charge quite well however.

    Titan Armor : If it works, make it bigger. This is the theory behind a set of Titan Armor, an animated suit of armor built in such scale that a giant could wear it. The great two handed swords they bear can threaten even the most powerful foes, if only from shear mass, and the javelins they throw are more akin to small ballista bolts then the version used by man.

    Large animated objects given large sized equipment. While definitely not a top tier threat, they aren't on the bottom either, fitting in comfortably as the Animate's medium tier melee combatant.

    Steam Engine : These large, insectoidian engines are formed from a single large water tank on its rear, a heating station in its middle, where it mounts it's legs, and a powerful bellow system in it's 'head' for projecting the steam. While neither designed nor armed for direct combat, few are the warriors who do not fear the scourging jets of steam this metal monster can project.

    So.. this is the Animate's twist on ranged units. Instead of bows, or crossbows, or magic deathrays, the Animates use powerful jets of steam to slay their foes. The jet action of this unit allows it to, with cunning placement, strike more then one enemy at once, and the line shaped attack path renders dodging impossible, as with all area attacks. The downside is that a single steam jet does not do as much damage as a full squad of master bowmen verses a single target, and the engine is utterly unequipped for melee combat, being dependent upon it's native slam attack if things should come down to that.

    Matrix Golem: Scrolls, Staffs, Wands.. what do all these have in common? They're all proof that you can imbed spells in objects, after which people who are not wizards can cast them. And if people who are not wizards can cast them.. what about a properly designed golem? Every Matrix Golem is built around a modular crystal matrix design to hold the energy for a single spell within. Meanwhile, bleedout vents and energy directors allow the matrix golem to imitate a more traditional mages magic blasty powers.

    So.. It's a golem. That can have a single spell imbeded in it, that it can then cast. A distinctly poor man's wizard, but it's the closed any no sapiant golem is going to get to wizardhood. I'm thinking that while it doesn't get experience levels, finding better rare ores does let it hold more 'spell charges' then non impossibilitium forged ones. Also has the normal magical bolt attack, giving you an alternate ranged attacker to the Steam Engine.

    Golem Smith : Golem crafters and weapon forgers, the Golem Smiths are the backbone of the Construct Army. Not in combat, no, but out of it. Golem Smiths are the undisputed masters of both general engineering and golem repair. While effectively useless in combat, out of combat they can rapidly return a ruined heap of a construct back into a fully armed and operational squad of combat animates.

    So... Engineers. No good in combat, but out of it they repair your troops, and they're pretty good at that whole making roads thing as well. Just don't get them killed.

    Animated Ram : Animated suits of armor alone can not batter down enemy walls, so when sieges come, the Construct armies turn to these animated siege weapons to show the folly of their enemies defenses. Vast moving hills of wood and iron, Animated are well night indestructible as far as the common infantry man is concerned. A fact that the Constructs are fortunate for, because these weapons are both exceedingly slow and almost utterly unable to harm anything more dodgy then city walls. Well, unless the target is obliging enough to stand still and let itself run over. Of course, as far as city walls are concerned, a few thwacks of its ram headed.. well, ram, and you have a hole large enough to drive an army through.

    Siege weapons! Everyone has them, and it just so happens that the construct version is a melee one. While slow and pretty much unable to harm normal infantry men, being a half ton mass of iron and hard lumber doesn't make them easy to destroy either.

    Animated Altar : Some wizards respond to the call of king and country by forsaking the comforts of home and the convince of their laboratories and marching off to war, to destroy their foes in storm or fire. The Master Mages of the Golem Guild consider them idiots. You just bring along your home and laboratory with you when you go to war. Simple, yes? But not so easily done. The Animated Altar is a house on legs, a mobile testing ground of magical destruction, and a powerful ritual center that just happens to be able to chase down its targets and step on them.

    So, the mage unit of the Constructs/Golem Guild. Very Very top tier. Pushing on the limitations of what mundane units can be. On the other hand, he's literally carrying around the comforts of home and lab with him... while insisting you pay for it. Not even getting into the expenses of making said home and lab mobile in the first place....

    Bladestorm Animate : Animated weapon are, when all is said and done, a simple concept. make a sword that wields itself, a spear that guards its own ground, a bow that seeks its own targets. But simple ideas can have far reaching implications. In this case.. why limit yourself to one weapon? Why not two? Three? Why not.. one hundred? That is the thought train that lead to the Bladestorm Animate, a flying mobile self wielding storm of blades that can be counted in the triple digits. Don't get in it's flightpath unless you enjoy being pureed.

    So, the Golem Guilds top tier unit. A swirling storm of sharp stabby things that.. well, stab people. Based off the swarm units, this construct shreds anything that gets in range with gleeful prejudiced. Also the only flying unit in the entire army. One fun thing that might be done for this was if it had a random list of weapon enchantments that it rolled on each turn to figure out what enchantments it had this turn. After all, it's made up of a hundred different magical weapons, and it's not like they all have the same enchantments, right?

    Thus is the Golem Guild's army, slow, strong, and generally lacking in fliers, divine magic, and ranged attacks.

    One interesting feature that they might use is the concept of enchantment forges, special buildings they can build in any city that counts a Mana Node in its terratory, which will add beneficial enchantments to various units...

    Note that some of these enchantments may be taken from the Pathfinder SRD, instead of just drawing on the DnD one, one the general grounds that they have more stuffs.

    Positive Plane (Energy Well) : All melee weapons gain the Glorious enchantment.

    Negative Plane (Blasphemy Archive) : All Melee weapons gain the Keen and Heartseeker enchantments.

    Fire Plane (Blasting Studio) : All ranged weapons (IE, javelins) built in this city gain the Flaming Burst enchantment.

    Water Plane (Tidal Forge) : All melee weapons built in this city gain the Frost enchantment and add +1 to their enhancement bonus.

    Earth Plane (Earthblood Extractor) : All weapons and armor gain +1 beyond whatever bonus it would normally have from other buildings, and gains the Impervious enchantment.

    Air Plane (Storm Spire) : All ranged weapons (IE, javelins) built in this city gain both the Seeking and the Shock enchantments.
    Last edited by Happerry; 04-08-2013 at 12:32 AM. Reason: Fixed a typo;2 Added Matrix Golem

  4. #24
    Happerry, you have got a serious imagination man! I like it. I really like it! The "race" that would be ruling these golem legions reminds me of War of the Worlds conceptually. You've got these beings that use a completely mechanized military.

    Now, not everyone is going to like this as it strays from the D20 concept of golems, but I think it's great. It has enough difference to make it unique. We can always do more conventional golem (or astral golem) as DLC. Still, the astral version is also pretty cool. It will need to be put to a vote. Either way, golem may make it in the base game if we can hit enough stretch goals. That makes me happy

  5. #25
    What is this?! A contender for the Golem throne?! Forsooth! This will come to blows before the night is done! Why I...

    Hm... This actually looks really good. Really good.

    Where was I? Oh yes! In the spirit of peace and brotherhood, let us live in harmony!



    Seriously, Happerry, you're on a roll. This is a really awesome faction concept. I like it a lot, even if I'm a huge fan of the Astral Golems. Speaking of, I could totally see the two golem concepts actually making up the two Golem cultures that make it in the game. Say the Astral Golems came first, and then a group of mages pooled their collective mana together and imitated them. Or vice versa. I think it could work.

    Of course, if we can't share, then we must be enemies to the end of time!

    So what might Astral Golem Units look like? Here's a brief mock-up. It's either a counter-suggestion to Happerry, or a cultural variant, depending on how you look at it. (Apologies, by the way. I don't have the time today to write with as much flourish in the following).

    Astral Golem Design Concepts:


    --Astral Golem units are inherently magical. At the moment of creation, each Astral Golem unit is imbued with a magical essence from one of the six planes. That essence grants the unit a unique strength (I'd need help with the D20 details. Right now I'm keen on just cribbing off of Happerry's enchantment list) and elemental advantages, but also those same elemental weaknesses. However, at the start of the game, the Astral Golem faction only has access to one elemental type. As other mana nodes are captured, your Golem units can be trained with a different essence, and some new units may be unlocked.

    --Because Astrals cannot exist on the prime material plane without their Golem bodies, when a Golem unit is defeated, a small explosive burst of magical energy erupts from the unit to all surrounding tiles (except for a death essence Golem, which is only the perpendicular tiles). The elemental circles do elemental damage, life golems will heal surrounding units in the blast, and death golems will inflict the "Death clock" status effect on hit units, which will kill them in two turns if the battle is not won before then or the effect is not removed. Death blasts will hurt enemy and ally alike.

    --Part of what this means is that Astral Golems do not get access to their entire unit tree at the start of the game, and may never get complete access if they don't get a good combination of mana nodes captured. This means that it will be especially important for Astral Golem players to get elemental nodes under their control, and for other players to keep them out of Golem hands.

    --My original ideas are on the last page, and they're helping to inform my thoughts now.

    Astral Golem Units:

    Caravan Forge : Perfect settler unit. I'm keeping it. However, I'd suggest we toss out the Golem Smith, and give all of its abilities and function to the Caravan Forge. It makes perfect sense to me, since the forge can just as easily construct forts, sentry posts, roads, and etc., and it'd be really cool and unique for the settler unit to have an additional battle function, like you've just described. Available to: All essences.

    Hollow Armor : Ditto Happerry, but of course with the Elemental additions inherent in the Astral subfaction. Available for: All essences.

    Chariot Riders : To the Golems, the creatures of the prime material plane are not suitable for travel. Instead, they fashion sturdy chariots, propelled by the very elements themselves! Armed with sickle and scythe, they are a formidable and fearsome cavalry unit for any foe. Available to Air, Water, Life.

    Golem Slicers: Some Astrals understand this world better than others. They can feel the ebb and flow of the planes, and work in sync with them. These Astral Golems fire shuriken-esque blades with otherworldly accuracy. Available to Earth, Fire, Death.

    Animated Ram: Ditto Happery, plus elements. Available to: Fire, Earth, Water, Air.

    Sphinx: A fearsome statue. Half-human, half-cat in appearance. The sphinx can prowl the battlefield as quickly as Chariot Riders can. Between its lightning-fast stone paws and its variety of holy spells, the Sphinx is a fearsome enemy indeed. Available to: Life.

    Titan Armor : Ditto Happery. Available to: Death. Blast radius on destruction is 3x normal.

    Astral Mage: A golem made up of pure, shimmering glass (or alternately, scrolls and sheets of paper), the Astral Mage is the closest thing the Astrals can manage to a pure Astral on the prime-material plane. Magic is second nature to an Astral Mage (or first nature, to be honest). An Astral Mage uses up only half the normal mana a spell would cost if the spell uses the same element as the Astral Mage's element essence. Astral Mages are almost literally glass cannons, and will go down quickly to mundane attacks, so they must be protected at all costs. Available to: All essences.

    [That's all I've got for right now. I need to put in a few more units and refine the essence limitations on each of them. I just want to get the concept out there.]
    Last edited by Iron Kaiser; 04-07-2013 at 06:31 PM.

  6. #26
    Archmage of the Central Tower Happerry's Avatar
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    If the Hollow Armors are going to be available for all essences, you'll need to change their weapon load out so they actually have ranged weapons for fire and air to bless.

    Honestly, I'm not seeing that Hollow Armors really fit the Astral Type Golems, so have a suggestion for an alternate.

    Elemental Animate : The simpliest and most basic body the Astrals learned to construct for themselves was built around a 'skeleton' of iron, wrapped in the essence of the elemental power the Astral was native too. Less well contained and stable then later designed, raw power leaked out from their skins and scourged anything that came into contact with them, a side effect that made them decidedly unpopular for civilian works.. But turned out to have surprising use in war.

    A human shaped mass of elemental power wrapped around a stabilizing skeleton, Elemental Animates are man sized combatants that fight with there fists. Not being monks this doesn't seem very effective until you realize that anything that touches them, either by being punched or by punching the animate, takes free elemental damage from the leaking power. This instability is also where the Astrals got the idea to make all their units explode on death...

    And now a Replacement for the Titian Armor, for a second rank melee unit.

    Avatar Construct : Avatar Constructs are individual masterworks of craft, each perfectly duplicating a mortal beings body right down to it's muscles. As such, they also can easily take advantage of mortal schools of combat, as well as their weapons and armor. Given bodies in perfect condition that never age or grow frail, the Astrals inhabiting these bodies soon become master bladesmen, deadly duelists verses any who would challenge them.

    So, more golems! After the crudity of their first tries, the Astrals stepped back and did some studying before making some more, and then ended up copying how humans were put together. And then, given immortal unaging bodies, promptly decided that if they wanted to do something, they may as well take the time to learn how to do it right. Carries masterwork swords of some sort with shields and light armor. Elemental blessings probably are +1 (Frost, Flame, Shock, Corrosive) for the.. elemental ones, and Holy and Unholy for positive and negative energy blessings.

    And now their siege 'engine'

    Paragon Avatar : For all the successes of the Avatar Constructs, it was undeniable that the continual leakage of the Elemental Animates was also of use in combat, and Avatar's had distinct limitations with 'Not setting people on fire when they get punched'. Obviously, the thing to do is to combine the two schools! And then make it bigger.

    A Paragon Avatar is a giant sized statue infused with sufficient elemental force to be leaking energy from all its spores and an inhabiting spirit trained in manifesting and directing said force into giant blasty energy bolts. In combat, they use the elemental power to direct huge gouts of fire, thunder, ice, and acid at their targets, whether they be beast or wall, to rend all foes to ash.

    And if something gets into melee, they can always punch them. Assuming whatever it is survives attacking through their elemental shroud.

    ----

    Honestly, I'd go with separate elemental bonuses for units rather then have one bonus per element and then apply them to everything of that elemental. The one bonus thing worked for the Golem Guild because it was literally just making extra magic items and fit into the industry themes, but for the Astral-Golems it'd be better to have the animating spirits enhance their rides in ways that actually make sense, and not have fire spirits try to give a Hollow Armor's non existent ranged weapons Fiery Burst.

    I'd also be really hesitant about making things unavailable to the player unless you had the right elemental node, as you've done by limiting the Golem Slicers to three elements. That means over half of your starting conditions make you unable to hire your basic ranged unit! The Sphinx works because it makes sense to need positive energy to do holy magic, but you need to be very careful if you start having the basics be elementally locked.

    I'd think that it'd be better to make a base army list, melee fighter, ranged fighter, speed fighter, engineer, colonist, whatever, giving you a solid low to middle tier lineup, and then give a selection of high tier units that depend on what nodes you have, limiting your choices of heavy combatants and specialists while still giving you a full list so enemy fliers can't mock you by being unshootable because you only have a Positive node.

    Edit : Also, I'm extremely doubtful about that Death clock ability. What's wrong with pure negative energy damage?

    Edit, Edit: Just so people know, fleshed out my list a bit with the Matrix Golem.
    Last edited by Happerry; 04-08-2013 at 01:15 AM.

  7. #27
    WOW guys... Just WOW. And yea, death clock is too much. Negative energy would be enough

    Iron Kaiser you actually made me laugh out loud for real with the opening of your post.

    Anyways, I think golems are on the rebound. I think your ideas may attract followers. We're going to need more race "polls".

  8. #28
    Acolyte
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    i haven´t really taken a look at the undead threads, but i gathered that they were/are in the running for a playable "race" or "faction". i bring them up because my opinion on undead in that capacity is identical to what i feel about golems.

    I thought MoM had it right bringing that type of unit in as a fantastic summons and end unit (i think dwarves got the golems). keep in mind, i am a huuuuuuge fan of undead, elementals, and golems (i used to beat MoM on impossible going all the way in death and grabbing wraiths as early as possible), but i just don´t "feel them" as a faction because as at least one person ITT already mentioned, they have no intellect. i also see them as totally lacking in any sense of a "hive" or otherwise communal mentality.

    it has been quite some time since i played Age of Wonders (and i didn´t invest 1/1000th the time in it that i did in MoM or MOO2), but im almost positive undead were a playable race in that game; and i don´t remember being down with it at all.

  9. #29
    Moderator Asmodai's Avatar
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    Undead are one of the 4 main factions. High Men, Elf, Dwarf, and Undead or in. They are not discussed much because they're already in and the Devs seem to have a pretty firm idea of what they want to do with them. Most discussion centers around what additional factions we can add.

  10. #30
    Just so

    Although, in the classic sense some Undead and Golem would be similar ours are rather different.

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