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Thread: High Men Units

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  1. #1

    High Men Units

    In the spirit of handing out more information, here is the tentative list of high men units:

    Settlers
    Engineers
    Spearmen
    Swordsmen
    Archers
    Cavalry
    Clerics
    Halberdiers
    Crossbowmen
    Wizards
    Catapults
    Paladins

    I think everyone should be familiar enough with these that we don't need explanations. As always, what we want is feedback. Do take note of the fact that we've put in two ranged units. Archers and Crossbowmen. I hardly need tell you the crossbowmen have heavier armor than archers and are better armed and more expensive.

    I also want to point out that the Wizards are actually based on D20 wizards and will cast fewer spells on the battlefield than Sorcerers (whichever race ends up with them) would, but have more spells to choose from.

    I think we've put together a list with good “human flavor” which is bit like saying we've developed the perfect recipe for “Blandino Unsalted Crackers”, but it's what people expect from the human faction (including me). Still, we're open to suggestions, so feel free to let us know what you think.

  2. #2
    Moderator Aldaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    In the spirit of handing out more information, here is the tentative list of high men units:

    Settlers
    Engineers
    Spearmen
    Swordsmen
    Archers
    Cavalry
    Clerics
    Halberdiers
    Crossbowmen
    Wizards
    Catapults
    Paladins

    I think everyone should be familiar enough with these that we don't need explanations. As always, what we want is feedback. Do take note of the fact that we've put in two ranged units. Archers and Crossbowmen. I hardly need tell you the crossbowmen have heavier armor than archers and are better armed and more expensive.

    I also want to point out that the Wizards are actually based on D20 wizards and will cast fewer spells on the battlefield than Sorcerers (whichever race ends up with them) would, but have more spells to choose from.

    I think we've put together a list with good “human flavor” which is bit like saying we've developed the perfect recipe for “Blandino Unsalted Crackers”, but it's what people expect from the human faction (including me). Still, we're open to suggestions, so feel free to let us know what you think.
    That's a good list, it would also be cool to include bards or some other kind of less common unit. Maybe that could give the poor humans some flavor without making them feel "unhuman".

  3. #3
    Moderator Asmodai's Avatar
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    Assumptions (can you confirm?):
    Spearman can throw their spears.
    Archers have a higher rate of fire than Crossbowman (with the two action combat I assume this means archers can fire twice while crossbowman, fire then reload, fire then reload)
    Both Archers and Spearman have light armor and thus move 30' (60' on a double move)
    Cavalry is heavy, heavy warhorse, heavy armor, lance
    Clerics and Wizards both have some sort of magical unlimited ranged attack (i.e. magic bolts or some such)
    Swordsman, Clerics, Halberdiers, and Crossbowman have medium or heavy armor (movement 20'/40')
    Halberds set vs charge (and trip if it makes the cut)
    Paladins are mounted and heavy (like cavalry above but with paladin abilities as well)

    Initial though if all the assumptions are correct is that it's a lot of ranged attackers. (1 thrown, 2 projectile, 2 magic ranged, 1 ranged siege so 50% of the units)
    I don't understand how you're going to do the Sorcerer/Wizard distinction on non-hero units. Sorcerers will have more spell points but only 1 spell of their own (not counting the arcane range attack they all get) and Wizards will have less spell points but 2 spells of their own (again, not counting arcane bolt or magic missile or whatever). I further assume that besides the spell(s) they come with they will be able to cast spells from your main spellbook if they have sufficient spell points?

    ---------- Post added at 11:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:12 AM ----------

    I hope bards make it into the game as well but I don't really see troups of bards running around as common units. They seem like a better fit for heroes/champions than units that are pumped out of barracks and the like.
    Also are they going to be "High Men" or simply human? It would be interesting for example if creating paladins was dependent not only on a structure but also required the faction controlling them be "good" enough to make them. I'm not sure the whole "good"/"evil" thing has been fleshed out but it's been hinted that there will be something based on player actions and not just a hard coded listing so it would be cool a Paladins were a reward for a human player actually playing "good" and not just autmatic units that humans can pump out while slaughtering everything across the map.

  4. #4
    Bards will probably make it in as heroes. I don't feel they're a good fit for regular units.

    On to the assumptions:
    High men spearmen can't throw their spears. These are longspears to fight in melee with. (They could throw them, but that would leave them unarmed.)

    Archers will probably have a higher fire rate. We want to go with that, but need to play test it.

    “Both Archers and Spearman have light armor and thus move 30'” - Correct.

    “Cavalry is heavy, heavy warhorse, heavy armor, lance” - This is still up in the air. We have to fit it into the tier we're aiming at. With cavalry the horse/armor/weapons they are equipped with makes a big difference. We have yet to determine they're final specs.

    Clerics and Wizards will have a generic ranged magical attack. It will probably have a limit on the “ammo”. (Like MoM had.)

    “Swordsman, Clerics, Halberdiers, and Crossbowman have medium or heavy armor” - Mainly correct. Swordsmen might end up in light armor.

    “Halberds set vs charge (and trip if it makes the cut)” - Correct.

    Paladins are going to use heavy warhorses, etc, no matter what we do with cavalry and will, of course, have their paladin powers.

    Wizards and Sorcerers will have their own spellbooks. They may (probably will) be able to pull from your spellbook as well. Wizards are going to have more spells in their books. Sorcerers are going to have less spells, but more mana to spend casting.

    High men are are faction of men. We may add other factions later. (Like nomads in MoM).

    Limiting certain unit's production, like paladins, based on a player's actions is an interesting idea. We'll have to consider that as well.

  5. #5
    Thanks for the info, Aaron! It seems like a very good tentative base for the human faction. You are right, though. It kind of is "Blandino Unsalted Crackers." Of course, Humans are supposed to be the Jack of All Trades faction, so it's fine that they aren't as dramatically unique as, say, the Undead. But I think a little more spice could be good for the humans. The challenge, of course, is thinking of things that are distinctly human, since every other faction is based on humanity to some degree. I've got a couple of ideas I'd like to toss at the dartboard. Let's see what sparks the imagination.

    Swashbuckler - Adventurous and intrepid rogues whose skill with a rapier is matched only by their wanderlust. Swashbucklers have high dexterity, gain a bonus when fighting on the sea or shoreline, and have a natural resistance to water magic. On the strategic map, they can disguise themselves as pirates and pillage without fear of political retribution.
    Hunter - Skilled rangers with an affinity toward the creatures of nature. Hunters have high movement points on both the strategic and tactical maps and are not impeded by terrain penalties. Hunters can switch between axe and short-bow for tactical adaptability (although they're somewhat mediocre at both compared to dedicated units like Swordsmen and Archers). High-level Hunters gain the ability to summon a hound (man's best friend!) or a falcon during a battle for even greater tactical options and strength.
    Air Chariot - Humans are a species driven to innovate, advance, and overcome. When the seas taunted the kings of old with their mighty waves, mankind responded with mighty sailing ships. And neither was man content to allow the clouds to loom over them, but sought to conquer the skies with the mighty air chariots. Effectively a medieval blimp with a fantastical or magical flair, Air Chariots are useful primarily on the strategic map. They have excellent field of vision, which makes them good for scouting, and their ability to transport other units makes them invaluable for sneak attacks. However, Air Chariots are rather slow, and they are defenseless on their own in tactical combat, so a human player must use them carefully.
    Ballista - Effectively an anti-air version of the catapult. Ballistas can look terribly cool. I'll leave it at that.
    Pegasus - Not so much an new unit suggestion, but I think it'd be neat if Paladins, the super unit for humans, rode Pegasi instead of a normal horse. Not only does it make the Paladin an even better unit, but it gives the humans that extra touch of "magicness."

  6. #6
    Swashbucklers and Hunters could end up being hero types. (A cross class fighter/rogue and a ranger perhaps).

    I like the idea of the Air Chariot and of giving the paladins Pegasus mounts. Paladin mounts are actually supposed to be something special. We'll have to give it a think. My bet is that people are going to want pegasus to end up with the elves, lol.

  7. #7
    Mage’s Assistant
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    Spearmen, halberdiers, ranged weapon - bonus to fighting/shooting cavalry.
    Spearmen, halberdiers - penalty to storming castle walls, if it will be possible in this game.
    Sorry, signature is under construction.

  8. #8
    Moderator Asmodai's Avatar
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    Longspears and Halberds can both be set to receive a charge. In addition longspears have reach and halberds have trip.
    My understanding is every unit is going to have issues with castle walls except engineers and siege equipment (catapults)

    "Hunters" sound almost exactly like D20 rangers. I'd like to see them in the game as well but I'm hoping we get Wood Elf Rangers in the Elf army list. D20 Rangers get an Animal Companion at level 4 (Druids get one at level 1)

    D20 Paladin's get a "special mount" at level 5. This is typically a Heavy Warhorse which special bonuses that increase as the Paladin increases in level but alternative mounts may be used. A Pegasus IS one such alternative mount for a Paladin but it must be level adjusted and thus is not available to a Paladin until level 7. I believe a level 7 Paladin is beyond the scope of a city produced unit however and so a Paladin mounted on a Pegasus while possible would probably be a better fit for a Hero or Champion unit. A simple Warrior or Fighter mounted on a pegasus however (no Paladin mount bonuses and such) is something I'm hoping to see in the Elf army list.

    "Catapult" is a group term and includes Ballista along with Springald, Mangonel, Onager, Trebuchet, Couillard, etc. What most people think of when someone says Catapult though is actually a Mangonel. I kind of thought of "Catapult" as being a group term that each race who uses such weapons might have but the art would differ for each race. So for example a high man "catapult" might look like a Mangonel while an Elf "catapult" might look like a Ballista. Both would have the same stats, just a different way to customize the races like how I believe the barracks of each race (who has them) would look different even though they may do the same thing. I'm not opposed to the idea of using more specific siege engines with custom stats though I do find it hard to believe that a Ballista would be easily aimable enough to shoot down an airborn unit.

    The "Hunter" pet and Paladin mount does pose an interesting quesiton though. Wizards and Sorcerers can summon familiars at level one, Druids can summon Animal Companions at level one, Rangers can summon Animal Companions at level four, Paladin can summon a special mount at level five, are all these "pets" going to make it into the game?

  9. #9
    Moderator Asmodai's Avatar
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    It just occurred to me that the list doesn't include any naval units.

  10. #10
    I should have mentioned earlier that we are putting off the naval units unit we get all the base units in place. Every race is going to have some kind of naval unit (or some way to cross water), often more than one kind. We just haven't gotten to them yet.

    Familiars are probably not going to be there for regular units. For heroes it's still up in the air

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