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Thread: Just A Drop Of Water In An Endless Sea (Water Spell List)

  1. #1

    Just A Drop Of Water In An Endless Sea (Water Spell List)

    Of the four classic elemental circles (Air, Earth, Fire and Water) putting together the base spell list for water was the most difficult. Why? The different views people take on water. Take ice as an example. Some people (myself included) see ice spells as a natural fit for the water circle. It makes sense to me because fire and water are opposites in one sense and in another sense fire and cold are opposites. However, some people feel that cold's being the opposite of fire doesn't automatically make it part of the water “element”. Then there's acid. To me that's squarely water. I've actually had people say that acid was obviously a combination of earth and water... I don't get that one... I really don't. The point is that although it's easy to throw spells in the water circle it's not easy to pick spells that are going to get universal agreement.

    All that having been said allow me to present the tentative water circle spell list:

    Tier 1:
    Obscuring Mist
    Chill Touch (Chills target unit's melee weapons, +1d4 cold damage)

    Tier 2:
    Summon Small Water Elemental
    Acid Arrow

    Tier 3:

    Tier 4:
    Summon Medium Water Elemental
    Ice Storm

    Tier 5:
    Wall of Ice
    Cone of Cold

    Tier 6:
    Summon Huge Water Elemental
    Freezing Sphere (Cold based “Flaming Sphere”)

    Tier 7:
    Water's Tenacity (Target hero gains +10 to Str, +10 to Con)
    Tsunami (Water wave attack with tier appropriate area and damage)

    Tier 8:
    Polar Ray
    Acid Tsunami (Tsunami with residual acid damage)

    Tier 9:
    Summon Water Elemental Swarm
    Water's Power (Target hero gains: All attacks have +2d10 cold dmg, +10 Strength, +10 Dex, +10 Con, DR 5/-, Reflex Saves +10)

    A few points: The links to the D20 spell descriptions are for reference only. Most (if not all) of them need to be tweaked for WoM. They are obviously a few spells in there we created from scratch. The stat bonuses related to them are not set, they are merely where we currently plan to start play testing at.

    Again, feedback and suggestions. We welcome both.

  2. #2
    Moderator Asmodai's Avatar
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    Feb 2013
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    Yet another uncreative post but this one is also a Cleric Domain in D20 so for those that don't know here is the list of spells:

    Water Domain Spells

    1 Obscuring Mist: Fog surrounds you.
    2 Fog Cloud: Fog obscures vision.
    3 Water Breathing: Subjects can breathe underwater.
    4 Control Water: Raises or lowers bodies of water.
    5 Ice Storm: Hail deals 5d6 damage in cylinder 40 ft. across.
    6 Cone of Cold: 1d6/level cold damage.
    7 Acid Fog: Fog deals acid damage.
    8 Horrid Wilting: Deals 1d6/level damage within 30 ft.
    9 Elemental Swarm*: Summons multiple elementals.

    * Casts as a water spell only.

  3. #3
    Abecedarian Mage Trudd's Avatar
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    Feb 2013
    Bordeaux (France)
    There is also the counter "boogie wonderland" which is a earth wind & fire spell

    Ok, seriously, water is also a reflective element.
    I think counterspell and reflect damage/spell should be is the water tier.
    Ice bolt should also be a nice direct damage water spell
    Last edited by Trudd; 03-08-2013 at 04:25 PM.

  4. #4
    You made me laugh with "boogie wonderland." I don't know how many times I've thought "Earth, Wind & Fire" since we started all this, lol.

    Ice Bolt is a good one. I will ponder the "reflective" magics

    The water domain spells really are a good fit here I think. Of course, Water Breathing won't make it in the core. And unless we use some kind of global Control Water I don't see it making the cut.

  5. #5
    Moderator Asmodai's Avatar
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    The D20 counterspell mechanic just requires you have the same spell the person is trying to cast though it's a bit complicated to use as you have to take a ready action on the caster, make a successful spellcraft check to identify the spell being cast, and if you can cast it too you can then counter it. I hadn't even though of counterspelling but it would be an interesting mechanic to add if you can simplify it enough but I don't think it should be tied to a single element. Of course dispel magic is the near universal counterspell so doesn't require you to identify or have the specific spell being cast.

    Water breathing could be per unit and require mana maintenance but a unit with it could move through water tiles (basically give them swim movement type even if they are in heavy armor).

    Control Water has multiple uses (maybe could even be split to multiple spells.) On the world map casting "raise water" version on a river could swell the river to a small one tile lake. casting this version on a coastal tile could cause that tile to go to ocean, adjacent ocean tiles would remain unchanged but adjacent land tiles would then become coast. This effect would require mana upkeep as well.
    The "lower water" on the other hand when cast on a river could dry up that tile. Like building a temporary mana powered damn this could even spread since the water is not flowing so that paying the upkeep for one tile allows the river to dry up in it's flow direction one tile per turn. When cast on coast it could also make it land and turn adjacent ocean tiles to coast. When cast on an ocean tile this version would create a whirlpool that could sink ships and when cast on water elementals (and other water based creatures) it could act as a slow spell. (these last two effects are actually in the spell description)

  6. #6
    We are going to have to change counter-spell. As your post makes clear, it's far to complicated for WoM. Too many monitors would be throw out of windows in rage

    We're going to have water walking, so water breathing really isn't a good fit until we add the "under water" feature. At least, that's how I feel ATM, lol.

    OK, I do see using raise and lower water as an interesting idea. We'll move it to the "think" pile.

  7. #7
    Moderator Asmodai's Avatar
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    Here's a simplified mechanic for consideration:
    First you can only counterspell if you have a spell casting unit in the battle that hasn't taken it's action for that turn.
    When an opposing spell caster (divine or arcane) selects to cast a spell the computer automatically does a spellcraft check for each of your spell casting units that has not completed it's move. If the check succeeds the spell is identified and the computer determines if the spell is in the caster who identified it or the main wizards spell book. If it is and either that caster or the main wizard has the spell points to cast it then the user is prompted to counterspell or not. It might sound a bit complicated still but keep in mind that everything except the prompt at the end happens automatically so there's nothing the player has to do. This won't happen TOO often either because a lot of battles won't have spell casters, even when both sides do there has to be a caster who hasn't completed their move, succeeds at the spellcraft check, and has the spell and spell points to cast before anything happens.

    If the caster unit (or the main wizard) have dispel magic then the player is prompted to counterspell whenever an enemy unit casts and the unit with dispel magic or main wizard has enough spell points.

    If this still is not a good simplification then I hope at least something is found that will use the spellcraft skill and enable counterspelling. I'd like to see as many of the D20 skills made as useful as possible and counterspelling is a really cool feature to have in the game. IMHO.

  8. #8
    Yea, it's something we've really got to think about. We want to make counter-spell accessible without making it overly so. It's one of the things we may have to try a few iterations of before we're (I'm) happy with it. Your simplified counter-spell example would be very easy for the user since we could auto-prompt for it. Either way, we're going to have to think about it. I may make it a separate topic at some point.

  9. #9
    Abecedarian Mage Trudd's Avatar
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    Bordeaux (France)
    I think, counterspell should be a spell itself.
    The difficulty would be based on the amount of mana used to cast the spell to be countered, and the mana spend in casting counterspell.
    Cast by a spellcaster in his turn, the caster won't be able to caster any other spell until he use the counterspell.
    Each time a foe cast a spell, the choise in made to counter it or not.

  10. #10
    I see your point, but then what circle do we put it in? Protection is an obvious fit, but that's not my point I mean that if we just make it a spell we're going to have to jam it in a circle. If we do that only players with access to that circle are going to be able to use it. I'm afraid that could be a little overly limiting. Of course, not being able to cast counter-spell because of your circle choices would certainly give the choice extra weight.

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