Elven Units

[Aaron]

Alright, you guys certainly recognize the pattern by now. I post the proposed unit list and you respond with feedback and suggestions. On to the elven list:

Settlers
Engineers
Archers
Swordsmen
Druids
Dire Bears
Rangers
Sorcerers
Arcane Archers
Ballista
Wolf Riders
Giant Eagles

Now, the archers are better than highmen archers, the swordsmen not quite as strong. Weigh in and let us know what you like and what you don't. None of it's set in stone yet

[Asmodai]

So with no spearman and archers the first on the list does this mean elves can produce archers without any buildings and without forest tiles for a sawmill?
I would love to see Dire bears in game both as guardians/encounters and used via factions through such things as summon natures ally and animal companions but I'd prefer if they weren't made directly by cities as a standard unit.
Wolf riders I would prefer as a goblin/orc unit.
I find it odd that you use sorcerer instead of wizard when in D20 wizard is the elfs favored class. I don't have an issue with it though as I personally think sorcerer is a better fit since their magic is more natural and less studied, apparently the D20 designers disagree though.
Everything else looks good to me.

[Iron Kaiser]

Ballistas.

One thing I had assumed about the races was that you were going to give each comparable unit a different name per race. I imagine it would add just a touch of extra flair per faction. So if you'd like, you could name the generic units:

Human - Elven

Settler: Pilgrim/Pioneer
Engineer: Architect/Surveyor
Archer: Bowman/Bowmaster
Swordsman: Blade Dancer

On second thought, maybe Elves should have "Archer" and Men should get "Bowman." Then they'd have a theme going with "Swordsman." Anyway, just an idea for your perusal.

I do concur with Asmodai's thoughts that Wolf Riders sounds more like a goblin/orc thing. But coming up with an alternative is tough. Three animals jump to mind: Elk (The majestic horns would make for a pretty good attack animation), foxes (Magicked up to size, I guess. They fit the Elves' lithe, crafty theme), and tigers (because anyone riding a tiger is a bad dude. I'd be all for Draconians riding tigers). But Wolf Riders can fit the Elven theme, too. If you keep Wolves here, what would the (proposed) orcs ride?

Also agree with Asmodai. Sorcerors for Elves = Good.

[Asmodai]

I second the idea of using the term bowman for humans and archer for elves. Bowman (or even longbowman) is consistent with swordsman and archer is consistent with arcane archer.
I like the idea of elven archers using composite bows and humans using the standard variety.
Upon further thought I think the giant eagle falls in the same category as the dire bear so how about replacing both the wolf riders and the giant eagles with pegasus riders.

[Aaron]

Asmodai:
Elves can probably just make archers out of the box. It makes sense to me from a storyline point of view. Play testing will have a powerful effect on the final outcome.

I see your point about dire bears. I want them either way. What would you put in their place?

We had put wolf riders in elves because of the nature connection, the flavor of wolf riders and the lack of an orcish faction. Now it looks like we may end up with orcs after all and we may want to swap them up with something else. The pegasus riders mentioned in another post might be a good idea.

The sorcerer idea was based on the sortof natural magical connection angle. We may swap them with the highmen wizard though. It needs play testing IMO.

We still want something BIG for the elves top tier even if it's not giant eagles. We're just going to need to think about it a bit.

Iron Kaiser:

Ballistas are cool aren't they My grandfather made me a working model of one for a science project one year.

Elves should certainly get “Archer” and you're probably right about the whole naming thing.

OK, the wolves are moving off the scene. To be frank it's been a matter of contention before. Now, the will of the people has laid the argument to rest, lol.

[Asmodai]

I see your point about dire bears. I want them either way. What would you put in their place?

I'm not clear as to what there place is honestly. I mean with the undead the substitution was obvious to me just because the paralyze mapped nicely to the web and the disease mapped nicely to the poison. Perhaps if you tell me what you feel is the corresponding unit on the high man list that would give me a better feel for what this slots role is. Really though I don't think they NEED another unit, that list looks pretty darn good to me. Maybe a spearman or pole arm of some sort, I don't know.

[Trudd]

If you want something BIG for the top tier, you can try a Ent unit!
very Slow, very Strong and very clever. vulnerable to fire, but resistant to the other element and death, immune to fear.
I don't know about the D20 rules about these monsters, but it does simply stick to the concept.

[Aaron]

Dire bears were supposed to be a type of light cavalry.

I agree, we don't need another unit, but I would like to have some laid out. Some units may not make it into the core game. The more options we have put together the more selection we'll have if we have to do a little "pruning".

In D20 Ents are called Treants. I think it's a great idea. I don't know why I didn't think of it before

[Asmodai]

elven light cavalry = unicorns to me

[John Madlock]

9 fighting units, 1 artillery unit, 2 logistic units
More than enough for me.