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Thread: The Front Runners

  1. #1

    The Front Runners

    Alright, as you all know (well, the ones of you who keep up with the forums anyway), we plan to have a vote fairly soon on what race is going to get the coveted fifth slot. Now, it seems to me that the front runners are the Draconians and the Orcs. (In fact the orcs are so popular we actually already have a few orc models. SHHHH! Who said that!?!?!?) Rather than just set a date, have a vote, and leave it at that I thought it would be much better to come back to these two and flesh out the concepts.

    I want us to start by discussing the cultural options of each one. Do we stick with the stereotypical orcish hoard or do we do something new? Are the draconians violent and barbaric, relying on their physical strength or are they more refined, being gifted with great intelligence and natural magical ability? There's a lot we could do with this.

    You guys have a lot of good ideas. Throw em in here. I was about to get the ball rolling by chucking my opinion in first, but I changed my mind before I started typing. I want to see how you feel about it before I weigh in. I spearheaded the first four races. It's only fair that the community starts to spearhead them from here on out. So, you guys jump in and I'll follow you up

  2. #2
    Moderator Aldaron's Avatar
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    I'm torn between the two races. I like them both a lot and they could be very different.

    I wouldn't change the orcs too much. This list of units by Asmodai was cool for me. And I pitched the explosive population idea on another topic.

    For draconians there are many options. The MoM way was cool because they were the only race with all flying units (and fire breath!). But D&D dragons are tied to elements (red to fire, white to cold, blue to lightning and so on) so you could force that choice for draconians at the beggining of the game. They would be the same race but with minor differences. So if the choose "Fire" (or red) they would have fire breath and vulnerability to water. And maybe their sorcerers (draconians don't have wizards!) can also cast different spells according to the kind of dragon that their race have affinity, so Fire draconians sorcerers would cast some spell from the fire circle.

  3. #3
    Mage of the Lesser Tower Rybon's Avatar
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    You are cruel, cruel man making me pick my favorite type of orc. In a way I love the evil barbaric orc, the elves and dwarves need something to hate. But on the otherside I love the World of Warcraft orc, proud, fallen and redeemed, the books really brought to life how the could be something other a blood thristy horde.

    I kind of always think of Draconians as trying to live up to a heritage of Dragons. So I guess this comes down to what you think a dragon is. I like the ancient noble, intelligent dragon. My two biggest images of Draconians come from the Forgotten realms. The original evil race use to hunt the noble races. Then I have the image of the group that broke away and want to forge their own desnity.

    I am sure the eviliest version of both will be pick because that is what people want. That and looking a the race you have you are in need of a bad guy.

    My pick would be.

    Orc Horde
    Noble Draconian.

  4. #4
    Moderator Asmodai's Avatar
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    Not sure what you're asking for here.
    If you're just asking for us to pick between Draconians and Orcs then I would prefer Orcs (really more goblins than orcs but it's a conglomeration of difference races).
    As for their culture I'm not sure what you're asking. Do you want me to consolidate and restate the ideas I had (as well as the ones others had that I liked) in this thread so it's easier for others to comment on?
    Are you looking for more of a backstory type description to go along with the mechanics I suggested?

    As a side note if the "super settler" idea is taken then I think "Horde" would be a great name for it.

  5. #5
    Personally, I'm a larger fan of the Draconians. I feel like they are more original, and you've got a better chance at really putting your own unique touch to them. On top of that, from a marketing standpoint, it would be really nice to have at least one faction at launch that looks completely different from the traditional factions. If all we've got are the well-worn factions, then the game may blend in with all the other fantasy titles in people's minds.
    On the other hand, orcs are very popular and definitely expected by most players. It could be highly disappointing to many if they aren't in at launch. On top of that, orcs are also better if you're looking at the larger faction situation. Right now, we've got three traditionally good factions (High Men, Elves, Dwarves) and one traditionally evil faction (Undead). IE: We've got an imbalance. I would firmly place Draconians in the neutral territory as honor-bound, noble warrior clansmen, so I don't think they help out at all. The Orcs as savage raiders would definitely add another evil faction to the list (As would the Drow, I might add).

  6. #6
    The idea of the topic is to decide how we are going to shape BOTH the Draconian and Orc races. Basically to get a presentation ready for each before the vote. So, yes, re-posting your ideas here in condensed format is an excellent idea. They are probably both going to end up in the core game (more than likely). The question is: what are they going to be like?

    Noble or barbaric? Are the Orcs going to be technologically limited nomads. Are the Draconians going to be peaceful and enlightened? How do you imagine each race?

  7. #7
    Moderator Asmodai's Avatar
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    Orcs/Goblins:

    Only a truly powerful wizard could hope to unite the Goblin Hordes. But one who does would wield a force the likes of which the World has never known.
    Goblinoids and their allies are a tribal people. Their cities produce food (farmers) and production (workers) just like the other races but goblins do not pay taxes. As such their units require only production to produce and food for upkeep. Being nomadic they don't build permanent structures in their cities, those they do build are weaker (more likely to be damaged/destroyed when under siege) but do not cost money and require no upkeep. More advanced buildings (or upgrades to existing buildings?) have population requirements in addition to other building requirements and if the population drops below the requirement the building is lost (just like if another race couldn't afford the building upkeep). With population so critical to their cities their population grows faster than other races. What they lack in city strength they make up for in mobility as they can produce the horde unit which is a super settler (either in addition to the normal settler or alternately when producing a settler they can select how much population to move) that can move the entire city population across the map (though they have to rebuild the buildings when they resettle). While they don't pay taxes they still have use for money (hiring heroes for example) which they take from the cities of conquered races (conquered cities still pay their racial taxes) in the form of tribute to the horde. This drive for greater and greater tribute fuels their aggression.

    The farmers, workers, base military unit, divine caster, and cavalry are all represented by the goblin race.
    The base military unit is a goblin warrior armed with a Morningstar, javelin, leather armor, and light shield. The divine caster is a goblin shaman (adept), and the cavalry are goblin worg riders.
    Hobgoblin warriors are the swordsman. (studded leather, light shield, longsword... javelin?)
    Orc Barbarians are the rough equiv to high men pikemen (Orc Barbarian with studded leather armor and either Orc Double Axe or Falchion and Javelin?)
    Ogres have wall crushing and replace engineers and catapults
    Ogre Mages are the arcane spell caster (and boats? since they fly and could possibly make their entire stack fly to transport over water)

    Other possible units:
    Trolls
    Hill Giants
    Bugbear Rogues (if rogue units are added at army lists at some point)

  8. #8
    The draconian discussion has moved back over to the draconian post for those of you keeping up.

    Asmodai, good suggestions for flavorful orcs

    Does someone want to make a specific counter-suggestion for a more noble civilized orc faction? (or another take on barbaric?)

    I should have opened this post with a better explanation. What we are trying to do is flesh out the different cultural suggestions for each of these races so we can put it to a vote. Asmodai has just made a definite suggestion for nomadic barbarian orcs. What we want to do here is post other ideas. Once we've given it enough time I'm going to do a post that summarizes all the suggestions and we are going to vote on which "culture" the first version of that race is going to have.

    Have I made myself clear at last, lol?

  9. #9
    Moderator Asmodai's Avatar
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    Just as a tiny point of "flavor", I would prefer if goblins don't have the letter 'c'. In its place would be 'k' or 's' depending on how the former 'c' was pronounced. So it would be Ork not Orc for example. Maybe even spell things more like they sound, like wuz instead of was.

  10. #10
    We don't seem to have a lot of other orc culture suggestion yet, lol.

    So, how do we handle allowing them to move their cities? It's an interesting idea, but how should it be implemented. At the end of the day that's a huge advantage. It has to have an equally large disadvantage. Ideas?

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