The Great Orc Debate

[Aldaron]

[QUOTE=devoncop;53123]

Hi guys,

I’ve read through this thread all the way. I have to say that the idea of making the orcs into great plains Native Americans or Aztecs is pretty offensive. I really can’t believe that didn’t cause more of a stir.


Hi Marcos,

I respectfully suggest that you have misinterpreted the suggestion of some people. I don't think for one milisecond people were suggesting that Native Americans or Aztecs would be represented as Orcs. What was being suggested was that Orcs should have a Nomadic type backstory and culture which was similar to that of that adopted by some Native Americans.

As it happens I go much more for the traditional Tolkein view but I am sure no offence was intended. If it makes you feel more comfortable I am happy for the Nomadic tribe culture to be based on Celtic tribes of Ancient Britain as that is where I am from. I won't be offended at all by this.

Best wishes

Ian

I would like to add that native american weren't the only nomadic tribes in the world. In any case I don't like the good/evil dichotomy so I don't think that Orcs have to be bad and elves have to be good.

[Arebane]

I want to vote for orcs because they are a very tradition fantasy race, but having the orcs as having an American Indian culture just seems out of place. This was done in World of Warcraft with giving the minotaur race (Taurens) an American Indian culture. I think we should have traditional fantasy races acting as traditional fantasy races.

[Khaldonar Mandiss]

The orcs would be a great race to throw into the game. There is many different type of good examples... Orcs in Warhammer are more plant like. They reproduce by dying... releasing spore and then growing more. This would fit a nomadic life style and a need for constant conflict. The older they get means they are the lucky few who have survived decades of constant conflict and become beasts of the battlefield... Not all orcs were green.. Some were viewed as grey, black, and brown even... the first orc depictions were more pig-man like... I honestly like the view of a noble race who enjoys a good fight. So, Nomad orcs... Sounds fun, interesting and worth a play.

[Blackblade]

This is a really tough poll. Here's how I analyze the three:

Honorable Horde: Definitely the weakest of the three. For one, the "honorable warrior tribe" thing is very close to how I imagine the Draconians being. The "Honorables" also seem to normalize the faction. I'm already worried about the Humans, Elves, and Dwarves not being distinct enough. I'm definitely pushing for more unique factions with their own twists to gameplay. The "honorable" path seems to get rid of what would make the Orcs unique.

Barbarian Horde: I think the one con of the Barbarian Horde is that it's very "cliche." That can be considered positive, since it means the audience will be used to them as a faction. But I think it's a negative, because it robs your game of establishing key parts of its own individuality. Ditto why I really hope for some awesome, unexpected factions like Draconians, Golems, and Happerry's Spirit faction in the game. Having said that, the strategic variety Barbarian orcs provide is dearly needed (IE, cheap and fast game style, raiding mechanics, "Super Settler").

Noble Tribes: Okay, so the whole flavor of the Noble Tribe Orcs is completely awesome. I love the idea of basing anything off the Native American tribes, and I love the idea of taking the fantasy stable orcs and putting them in a whole new direction. I absolutely adore that direction.

Having said that, there are two major problems to the Noble Tribes idea as I understand it. First, if "Noble Tribes" are the first Orcs to get in, then the "Good/Neutral" factions will far outweigh the evil one. Undead simply need a partner in the core game to share the "bad guy" limelight. Second, if the play mechanics are "fairly normal," then it removes the variety in strategy gameplay. A lot of the Barbarian Horde gameplay features, like the "Horde/Super Settler" mechanic and the "cheap and fast raiders" style, are desperately needed to spice up the gameplay.

So given that, I feel compelled to vote for the Barbarian orcs. Noble Tribes is awesome, and if the gameplay mechanics were unique and wildly interesting, and there were enough badguys already in the game to justify it, then I'd be voting Noble by a long shot.

I think this summed up my feelings very well. I would vote for the barbarians as the game needs some evil races, even if that is only surface dressing. There also needs to be some interesting game mechanics and interesting units and it seems this culture will have those. That being said I also like the idea of the Orc nation comprising more than one race (goblins, ogres, trolls or similar things).

[Endless Rain]

For your information, we reopened discussion about the Orcs in the backers forums, and eventually decided to base the Orcs off the Vikings (Which was my idea.) instead of the Native Americans. The unit list can be found here and the building list can be found here.