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Thread: tweak on randomness from MoM Summon Hero

  1. #1
    Mage’s Assistant baenre's Avatar
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    tweak on randomness from MoM Summon Hero

    So I was just thinking about my latest play through of MoM.

    Did anyone else ever reload after getting a hero they didn't want? (Bahgtru, brax, etc) and hope to get a more noteworthy hero (Malleus, Shuri with pathfinding, Fang)

    I seemed to do this a lot, especially if I put a lot of resources into my summon champion, I would often reload to get Warrax (my favorite I think before Torin)

    How about with spells? beat a ruin full of zombies, find a random stone skin spell, and reload for something you will use, maybe next time you will get earthlore, change terrain, or regeneration.

    My suggestion is to give us the ability to control the randomness, maybe be able to pick who the random hero is, or what the spell may be. Possibly with a cost, i.e. must have researched such and such, or picked an ability at the start that allows this.

  2. #2
    Did anyone else ever reload after getting a hero they didn't want?
    All the time! I think Aaron and the crew have a plan for dealing with this issue. He isn't talking about it too much yet, though.

  3. #3
    Mage’s Assistant Belgariad87's Avatar
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    i really hope most of the reloading syndrome will still be there, cuz i would not be happy if i couldn't reload my save 30 times to find Malleus
    Malleus the Magician + Fang the Draconian = OP

  4. #4
    Moderator Asmodai's Avatar
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    If you are specifically summoning a hero I think being able to pick who it is if there are only a few to pick from would be fine. If there are a lot of different heroes this could be overwhelming though. Heroes that just show up without specifically being summoned would of course be random though it could be weighted by various factors such as race relations and such so hopefully you'd get someone you like based off of what you've been doing in the game. Also hopefully all the heroes would be pretty sweet so there isn't really a "bad" hero to get.
    As for ruins and such I'm not a fan of the reload till I get the loot I want. In fact my suggestion would be that the loot for the ruin is generated with the ruin and its guardian so reload all you want, it won't change. Aaron suggested something similar with the unit promotions where they are flagged if they spawn heroes or not when they are created so once the conditions are met they create a hero or not and no amount of reloading will change that.

  5. #5
    I think Aaron said that all the loot and monster (except for random events) will be generated when the game is generated.

  6. #6
    Acolyte
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    I actually remember getting Bahgtru and turning him into a powerhouse. Especially with the throwing axe ability. I would reload if I got death spellbooks on my life mage

  7. #7
    If you want to cheat by reloading then that's up to you but the fun of games like MoM is not knowing what you're going to get and not always getting what you want. Please don't allow us to control that randomness as I think it would diminish my enjoyment.

    Also, I hope the heroes get random abilities like they did in MoM as that was one of its coolest features.
    Last edited by ioticus; 05-03-2013 at 08:01 AM.

  8. #8
    Mage’s Assistant baenre's Avatar
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    Ioticus, while I don't agree with your thought that reloading because of bad rng is cheating, I do see what you mean. I wouldn't be upset if they did what they have suggested, and generated all loot/monsters at the beginning.

    What my post is mainly about, is giving players choices. If you want to get a random hero from your summon, you can do that and be surprised by what you get (I like to do this some of the time, and if I get a "weaker" hero, I take it as a challenge.) On the reverse side if you want to be able to choose who you get, you pay for it (either with researching something, a specific building, perhaps a pick at the beginning) why not make that an option so either play style is available.

  9. #9
    I've put a ton of hours into MoM over the years and 600+ hours into EWOM/FE/LH. I just picked up MoM recently as well - one of the most interesting aspects of it compared to FE is the randomness. The little cave could hold a spider. Cool, I can beat a spider... holy crap, 6 spiders and 2 earth elementals. Reload. Fun, annoying, but at least interesting.

    Same with "Summon Champion", there were a limited enough amount of heroes that everyone had their favorites and people frequently reloaded.

    You could go a few different directions with this:
    Summon a specific hero - boring, IMO
    Summon a generic hero with procedurally generated traits - possibly fun, possibly a reload fest
    Summon a random hero, allow reload or don't allow reload (i.e. no random seed, always going to get the same). Possibly good.
    Summon from a smaller pool of specific heroes - maybe melee, ranged, magic, hybrid - and fix the result.

    Randomness is VERY key, but if its a big point, i.e. I just spent 20 turns casting "summon champion", I want 1 of the 4 I specifically want and DONT want the others.

  10. #10
    I always used to think that the idea in MoM that you would summon a hero with a totally random outcome was a mite stupid – not as a part of game balance and fun, but just as a way a spell would work if you were “really” doing this. Assuming the various heroes in question were sitting in taverns, wenching, out questing, carrying out an all-night vigil or whatever heroes do, the spell apparently located one of them randomly and did some kind of deal with him/her so that he agreed to be zapped into my summoning circle and offer me his services, only for me to decide, oh no, not Brax again, and refuse to hire him.

    Could we have this spell work a different way, where you could specify the class you want – fighter, battle mage, etc – and then send out a summons which all in that class will eventually respond to, but the more in-demand guys will usually take a lot longer to reply. You therefore have a choice – take the less useful one sooner or wait, spending more mana until one you want appears. This spell will keep working until you turn it off. It will work in the background – not stopping you casting other spells (so it would in that sense be like any overland spell such as Just Cause or Wind Mastery in MOM).

    Example – I learn the summoning spell and I send out a call for a fighter type. Brax turns up after 6 turns, the Orc Warrior after 7, they both hang around until turn 10, then Brax gives up and I hire the Orc. The spell is still running and eating up my mana. I’m really holding out for the super-legendary Rogue to boost my Fame and he finally turns up at turn 22. I switch my hero beacon off for the fighter type and now switch to summoning a healer.

    It wouldn’t be too difficult to fix the time period for this spell so that you spent similar amounts of mana as in MoM.

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