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Thread: Splitting the Elves

  1. #1
    Moderator Asmodai's Avatar
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    Splitting the Elves

    In the Elven Units discussion Aaron indicated he was leaning toward splitting the Elves into a Sylvan and Noble elf faction. (note those are just placeholder names to make the distinction) I figured I'd start a discussion here about how that split might take place.

    First let me define what we have now as the combined unit list (setting aside settler, engineer, siege engines, and naval units):

    Archers, Swordsmen, Unicorns, Rangers, Druids, Sorcerers, Arcane Archers, and Pegasus Riders

    Now for Sylvan Elves my suggestion is to keep the first 6 in that list but move the last two to the Noble Elves. In place of them and for top end units I suggest using perhaps Nymph and Treant. This would be the faction included in the core game and that would get the global map movement bonus in forest tiles.

    The Noble Elves would be more arcane magic focused and lack the forest movement bonus. Their unit list might look something like:

    Spearmen, Swordsmen, Archer, Light Cavalry, Priest, Wizard, Arcane Archer, Pegasus Riders

    Sylvan Elves would avoid metal armor wearing leather and using wooden shields for example. Noble Elves would use metal armor but tend toward light armor on units on foot and medium on mounted units (compared to High Men which would use medium armor on most foot -except spearmen- and heavy on mounted). This would make High Elves mobility focused compared to High Men.

    The magic focus Noble Elves could generate interesting heroes when they are made from units. For example a hero generated from their Light Cavalry could be of the Eldritch Knight prestige class and heroes generated from their Priest class could be Mystic Theurges.

    We can use more creative names and units with the same name above aren't actually the same. For example the Sylvan Elf Swordsman might be a Wood Elf with leather armor, longsword, and a wooden shield while the Noble Elf Swordsman might be a High Elf with Chain Shirt, longsword, and a metal shield. The difference in subraces would change their stat bonuses in addition to the differences in gear.

    Still Noble Elves aren't too different from existing races so I would suggest they come along later in DLC instead of being included in the core game.

    Anyway just some thoughts to maybe get discussion going.
    Last edited by Asmodai; 05-06-2013 at 10:24 PM.

  2. #2
    agreed.
    As i have stated in the Dark Elf thread,i think that its important to keep room for future culture expansions for the races.
    Some interesting units should not be included in the core game because of this.

    The first 6 units in your list +treeant,nymph would indeed make a nice wood elf race.
    I could see maybe the pegasus riders for wood elfs and high/noble elfs getting Sorcerer instead.
    Would make high elves even more magic heavy and emphazise a bit more on the woodland creature theme for wood elves.Just my personal opinion though... i know that pegasus riders were high elvish in MoM.
    Last edited by Mardagg; 05-06-2013 at 11:03 PM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodai View Post

    Still Noble Elves aren't too different from existing races so I would suggest they come along later in DLC instead of being included in the core game
    .
    I totally agree with your opinion. All subraces must be included in future DLCs. There are too many "forgotten" races that can be included in the main game that all subraces should be ignored at this moment...

  4. #4
    Mage of the Lesser Tower Rybon's Avatar
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    But if you are going to do it as a DLC, why just one extra elf subrace. There are plenty of different elves you could just have a entire DLC of elves.

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    Moderator Asmodai's Avatar
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    My concern is just that the elves in the current combined elf faction might have units that would better fit other elf factions released later. So while we don't need to decide exactly what every elf type is going to be but we might want to set aside some of the units currently in the elf list for later faction use. In my opinion Arcane Archers and Pegasai Riders fall into that category as I feel they would better fit an Arcane focused Nobel/High Elf faction. Others may have similar feeling about other units which is why I started this thread. Hopefully we get a feel for what we want to take out of the combined elf faction to reserve or future elf variations as well as what we could add to make the current one more Sylvan/Wood elf oriented.

    As for what Elf variations there will be I suspect there will eventually be quite a few. We will have Sylvan/Wood Elf in the initial release as well as apparently Dark Elf based off of the current faction primary. High Elves will likely make it in at some point and if/when they add the underwater DLC I wouldn't be surprised to see an Aquatic Elf faction.

    Also while I would prefer that further Elf factions come in later in DLC (I personally think we have enough Elf variations for the core game) I would prefer High Elves over some of the other races currently in the faction primary. That said while I wouldn't vote for them over say Orcs or even Gnomes I do think they should be put in the next Faction Primary if the existing Elves become the Sylvan variety.

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    Totally agree with Asmodai, though don't really see much point in a plethora of elf subraces. Sylvan, Noble and Dark IMO cover all variations perfectly. Anything beyond these wouldn't be more than only minor modifications of these. Aquatic elves... as I see it, that's about the same as Mermaids.

  7. #7
    THE GRAND BACKER zdsdead's Avatar
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    I Like the suggested units, maybe stag riders, like in the recent "The Hobbit" film would be a good cavalry unit for the Sylvans. I think the halflings would like to have the treants ;-)

  8. #8
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    Well Barbarian, Nomad, Highman are all variations of the Human race, i think the main problem will be what's the point, EX: if you have a Sylvan Elf archer, Dark Elf Archer, (another type of Elf) Archer and all do the same thing but only the changes are some color, stats, ..., if the playstile with that Factions is the same. I agree with Asmodai.

    Maybe if a new Elf race(or other races) have a new playstyle like the Undead, that would be nice for a future dlc.

  9. #9
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    +1 to what azghall said. Why split the 'good' elves when we're going to have the darj elves as the mystical type?
    "It matters not, how straight the gate, how charged with punishment the scroll. I am the master of my fate. I am the captain of my soul." -Invictus.

  10. #10
    Sorcerer Greybriar's Avatar
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    MoM had fourteen races which included the High Elf and Dark Elf races. Do we really need another Elven race? EverQuest had three Elven races, but that was EQ, not MoM (or Worlds of Magic).

    Personally, I would prefer sticking with the original races. If that isn't acceptable, then add a race that isn't a branch of an existing one.

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