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Thread: Goblins: the Zerg Force of WoM

  1. #11
    Tolkien didn't invent those words, and thank GOD fantasy artists and game designers didn't stay stuck in the motifs and archetypes he created. We owe Professor Tolkien, but we don't owe him slavish adherance to his ideas. He wouldn't want it anyway.

  2. #12
    Moderator Asmodai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy_Costisick View Post
    Tolkien didn't invent those words, and thank GOD fantasy artists and game designers didn't stay stuck in the motifs and archetypes he created. We owe Professor Tolkien, but we don't owe him slavish adherance to his ideas. He wouldn't want it anyway.
    I don't think there is any chance we are going to have "slavish adherance to his ideas". From the screenshots the "Orc" faction is going to be visually more similar to the greenskins of Warhammer and Warcraft than the corrupted elves of Tolkien or even the Orcs of D20. I brought Tolkien up just as an example of how long the terms "goblin" and "orc" has been associated with each other in fantasy settings not to imply we MUST copy him. You are correct though he did not invent the terms but the idea of a conglomeration faction of orcs and goblins (and ogres, trolls, etc.) is FAR more natural in my mind then the races thrown together in the Fey discussion. That's my opinion anyway, feel free to disagree.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Troy_Costisick View Post
    Tolkien didn't invent those words, and thank GOD fantasy artists and game designers didn't stay stuck in the motifs and archetypes he created. We owe Professor Tolkien, but we don't owe him slavish adherance to his ideas. He wouldn't want it anyway.
    Easy, now. I would prefer them be seperate. Others might not. Maybe Aaron would give us what the WoM design team thinks before we go any further.

  4. #14
    Mage of the Lesser Tower devoncop's Avatar
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    Just to chip in here......I see Goblins and Orcs as different factions but as natural diplomatic allies (even if thats because the Orcs have TOLD the Goblins its in their interest)

    I love the Goblin suicide sapper idea by the way ROFL
    "There are only two things that are infinite:the universe and the stupidity of people....... and I am not sure about the universe" Albert Einstein

  5. #15
    Mage of the Lesser Tower Rybon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy_Costisick View Post
    Tolkien didn't invent those words, and thank GOD fantasy artists and game designers didn't stay stuck in the motifs and archetypes he created. We owe Professor Tolkien, but we don't owe him slavish adherance to his ideas. He wouldn't want it anyway.

    My thoughts exactly.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Rybon View Post
    You got John, that is what I was thinking about.
    So let's explore the suicide theme a little more. What about a goblin grenadier unit that explodes when it attacks dealing X to the target unit and Y damage to all surrounding units. X and Y to be determined later.

  7. #17
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    FWIW, I would like the goblins and orcs to be separate.

    Regarding the stuff presented here, I like the goblin catapult and sappers. Grenadiers might need some playtesting, but they sound silly and fun. The ravage ability makes sense for goblins, but I'd want nature loving races like Wood Elves, The Fey, Beastmen, and so on to be able to have priests that could change the terrain back. I think that might have been discussed in the elf thread, right?

    I'm fine with no upkeeps at all on spearmen and chuckers unless playtesting shows that to be too powerful. The free unit every other turn with The Warrens is fine because I get that building would have a food and gold upkeep. Oh, and I don't think goblins need a flying unit. Not every race should have one.

    Marcos

  8. #18
    (I'm not sure having NO upkeep at all is a good idea as some limit on troops needs to exist IMHO.)
    I just want to touch on this really quick. There is an opportunity cost that comes with producing tons of cheap, crappy units: you cannot build buildings or improvements for your city nor can you build elite units to defend. So if someone is producing a ton of light units, they cities will fail to grow, they will fail to accumulate gold from trade goods, and their city defenses will be extremely weak. Obviously, playtesting would have to show whether no upkeep is viable, but I definitely think it's worth trying out.

  9. #19
    I'm for the Ravage ability. And I especially like you can get food and gold from it. I also like the idea of elvish druids fixing it.

    Just to chip in here......I see Goblins and Orcs as different factions but as natural diplomatic allies (even if thats because the Orcs have TOLD the Goblins its in their interest)
    I feel the same way

  10. #20
    I absolutely love the idea! Orcs can be wild, strong and utterly tough to form a contrast. I also like the idea of goblins being a bit cleverer than orcs, so they could have stuff like catapults or spear throwers.

    I would, however, not copy the warhammer doom divers - they're way to specific (and ridiculous). I also think that goblin mutants are a bit odd. Why not take trolls or ogres for big fighting stuff? They're quite common in the company of goblins in many game scenarios.

    I'd also wish to point out that goblins are natural-born riders, since they're so leight-weighted. They could ride wolfs (way faster than boars), huge birds, deer (for scouting) and so on (or, if the scenario is a bit more global, they could ride antilopes, lions and stuff).

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