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Thread: Goblins: the Zerg Force of WoM

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by VolkervonAlzey View Post
    I would, however, not copy the warhammer doom divers - they're way to specific (and ridiculous).
    Goblin catapult from Magic: The Gathering



    Goblin catapult from some weird online video game



    And I could find more, if I wanted. That's just to say, this idea hs been around. Warhammer doesn't have a lock on it.

  2. #22
    Ah, well ... that reduces it to ridiculous ^^ It's simply more efficient to throw rocks, spears or enemy corpses. What's more: goblins are known to be cowards above all, so facing certain death seems not to be a welcome future to a small little gobbo.

  3. #23
    Yeah, well. Goblins aren't known for their brains either

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodai View Post
    I don't think there is any chance we are going to have "slavish adherance to his ideas". From the screenshots the "Orc" faction is going to be visually more similar to the greenskins of Warhammer and Warcraft than the corrupted elves of Tolkien or even the Orcs of D20. I brought Tolkien up just as an example of how long the terms "goblin" and "orc" has been associated with each other in fantasy settings not to imply we MUST copy him. You are correct though he did not invent the terms but the idea of a conglomeration faction of orcs and goblins (and ogres, trolls, etc.) is FAR more natural in my mind then the races thrown together in the Fey discussion. That's my opinion anyway, feel free to disagree.
    I went back to the original Goblin/Orc thread and found this quote by Aaron:

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    The reason we want to keep the Orcs "pure" is because we may add the other goblinoids later. We plan to keep adding to the game as time goes by. We may eventually have factions that are amalgamations of the others, but we want to start with more "pure" races
    That should shed some light on that subject

  5. #25
    Moderator Asmodai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnReeve View Post
    That should shed some light on that subject
    It really doesn't.

    I can play that game too though, from The Goblin Hoard thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron
    I think we should run with “conglomerate” unless/until someone offers a strong counter-argument. It's a good way to fit a lot of interesting races under one faction.
    The orc/goblin conversations are a mess but I never got the sense any of the main suggestions were going against the weaker goblin-like base units and other such mechanics that have been largely duplicated in this thread. Even what appeared to be decided may not be because there is a vote to reopen the vote and there is the possibility that one of the Giant level backers may adopt the Goblin/Orc faction and then it will be up to that person how it ends up.

    My point was just that as of now I was under the impression that what they are calling the orc faction had weaker goblin-like base units, reduced upkeep, faster growth, etc. which is EXTREMELY similar with what has been suggested here. Maybe my impression was incorrect, but if it was not then this conversation is largely redundant. Again though if I was incorrect and the Orc faction is indeed just the bigger brutish guys and not the little numerous guys then by all means have a different goblin faction. This thread is still largely deplicating what has been said in The Goblin Hoard thread though and in my opinion it would be better to keep things in one place then to have multiple different goblin faction threads but maybe that's just me.

    ---------- Post added at 11:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Troy_Costisick View Post
    Yeah, well. Goblins aren't known for their brains either
    I never thought of goblins as being stupid. Cowards maybe, physically weak sure, but I always kind of figured them to be smart and crafty and even see them as shamans for some of the more martial/brutish races who may prefer to stay away from magic like Orcs. I'm not saying they are smarter then say humans, but I don't see them as being significantly dumber either. Maybe that's just my take on them though.

  6. #26
    Yeah, but the quote I used was Aaron's last one on the thread. In fact, it was the very last post.

  7. #27
    Moderator Asmodai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnReeve View Post
    Yeah, but the quote I used was Aaron's last one on the thread. In fact, it was the very last post.
    Yes that was the very last post... in THAT thread.
    Because the conversation moved to the vote thread. The vote thread created from the GOBLIN hoard thread was the great ORC debate. (see how the race names were used interchangeably?)
    Maybe I just fabricated that connection in my mind but that's certainly how I perceived it went. The discussion in the ORC thread still seems to me to center around the mechanics from the Goblin thread (again they seem to be used interchably) with most the debate being about the culture/story and not the mechanics.
    I guess it's possible I just confused or mixed up and they were supposed to be two entirely different things but I don't think so. To me it sure seem like the Orc faction has those same qualities these goblins have but even if those two threads were supposed to be different I still think this thread is largely a rehash of the goblin hoard thread and personally, and you are free to disagree, I think it would make more sense if we kept the discussion together in one thread instead of starting a new one pitching largely the same ideas.

  8. #28
    Asmodai,

    I reread the second orc thread, and I didn't see a single mention of goblins there. So, I have to go with the quote John had above. As for mechanics, in the second orc thread, I saw things like mobile cities, no cavalry, a bunch about lodges I honestly didn't understand, and a bunch of talk about how awesome it is to base orcs on indians without really defining what that meant.

    The first thread tossed out all kinds of ideas, some were maybe like the ones in my OP, but none of them made it into Aaron's distillation of the orcs in the second thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post

    Honorable Horde – In my mind this is a lot like MoM and Warcraft. The Orcs have their own honorable culture. They have fairly normal units and cities and are much like the other civilized races.

    Barbarian Horde – This a much more tribal and barbaric take on Orcs. They will have unique play mechanics like the ability to relocate their cities, but will have the inherent weakness of having certain buildings limited by a city's population.

    Noble Tribes – The idea behind this is that, although the Orcs are tribal in nature they are not barbarians. The suggestion is to model their culture after the American Indians. The play mechanics discussed have, up to this point been fairly “normal”.
    None of these speak about upkeep free units, small weak warrior, suicide attackers, etc. that were associated more with the Goblins in the first thread and not with the Orcs in the second thread. So if we split the two races, the Goblins would naturally be the upkeep free Zerg race while the Orcs would either be American Indians or Tough-guy Barbarians (depending on the Giant backer and/or potential revote). That's the direction I'm working from.

    Peace,

    -Troy

  9. #29
    Moderator Asmodai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy_Costisick View Post
    Asmodai,

    I reread the second orc thread, and I didn't see a single mention of goblins there. So, I have to go with the quote John had above. As for mechanics, in the second orc thread, I saw things like mobile cities, no cavalry, a bunch about lodges I honestly didn't understand, and a bunch of talk about how awesome it is to base orcs on indians without really defining what that meant.
    The mobile cities and such were taken from the goblin thread, that's part of the reason I thought it was a continuation but I already admitted I may have been wrong on that. I agree about not undertanding the lodge stuff and what basing them on Indians actually means.
    Quote Originally Posted by Troy_Costisick View Post
    The first thread tossed out all kinds of ideas, some were maybe like the ones in my OP, but none of them made it into Aaron's distillation of the orcs in the second thread:
    They didn't make it into Aaron's distillation of the orcs because the vote was about the cultural theme not the mechanics. I was under the impression, again possibly mistakenly, that the goblin thread mechanics were being used but we were voting on how the culture would be which is more story, art style, etc. related. Again though I could have totally misunderstood that but even if the two were completely separate this thread is still largely a rehash of many of the ideas "tossed out" in the original goblin thread. I'm not trying to STOP discussion, I was trying to suggest we keep things together instead of starting new threads over and over on extremely similar topics. I honestly thought I was doing a service pointing to the older threads on the topic, I've done similar on several threads in the past and never got such a defensive and argumentative reaction before. Maybe I'm conveying my tone poorly, maybe I chose my words particularly bad this time, maybe it's because I did misread the connection between the goblin and orc thread, who knows. If you guys feel so strongly about making multiple threads about the same thing so be it.

  10. #30
    Archmage of the Central Tower Happerry's Avatar
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    I was under the impression we were still using things from the goblin thread myself.

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