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Thread: Goblins: the Zerg Force of WoM

  1. #31
    We need to wrap up the Dark Elf vote ASAP so we can get orcs voted in and finally get some direction on them. All the official statements on them have been so conflicting with old posts, new votes, and Giant backers I don't know what to think. I want gobbies and orcs separated, but I have no clue what Wasteland Interactive wants.

  2. #32
    Mage of the Lesser Tower Rybon's Avatar
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    That is the problem. The orcs have already lost two votes. I think the races need to settle pretty quickly.

  3. #33
    Moderator Asmodai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnReeve View Post
    We need to wrap up the Dark Elf vote ASAP so we can get orcs voted in and finally get some direction on them. All the official statements on them have been so conflicting with old posts, new votes, and Giant backers I don't know what to think. I want gobbies and orcs separated, but I have no clue what Wasteland Interactive wants.
    Want even better news? There are two giant backers that we don't know what faction they will choose. So we're wrapping up the vote for slot 6 right now between Golems and Dark Elves leaving us only 2 slots left. I assume this means if the two remaining Giant backers choose something other than the 6 races already in then there will be no future votes for the release races as slots 7 and 8 will be taken by the remaining Giant backers. Orcs, Minotaurs, Beastmen, Fey, Halflings, Gnomes, etc. may not even get another primary if that happens other then who to be the first DLC race later.

  4. #34
    I'm pretty sure Aaron said that the backers would get to vote on all 8 factions then the Giants would have to choose from among them. Not 100% sure. Again, he'd have to clarify.

  5. #35
    Archmage of the Inner Ring ampoliros's Avatar
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    Etymology of Goblin

    goblin (n.)
    early 14c., "a devil, incubus, fairy," from Old French gobelin (12c., as Medieval Latin Gobelinus, the name of a spirit haunting the region of Evreux, in chronicle of Ordericus Vitalis), of uncertain origin, perhaps related to German kobold (see cobalt), or from Medieval Latin cabalus, from Greek kobalos "rogue, knave," kobaloi "wicked spirits invoked by rogues," of unknown origin. Another suggestion is that it is a diminutive of the proper name Gobel.
    Though French gobelin was not recorded until almost 250 years after appearance of the English term, it is mentioned in the Medieval Latin text of the 1100's, and few people who believed in folk magic used Medieval Latin. [Barnhart]

    cobalt (n.)
    1680s, from German kobold "household goblin," Harz Mountains silver miners' term for rock laced with arsenic and sulfur (so called because it degraded the ore and made the miners ill), from Middle High German kobe "hut, shed" + *holt "goblin," from hold "gracious, friendly," a euphemistic word for a troublesome being. The metallic element was extracted from this rock. It was known to Paracelsus, but discovery is usually credited to the Swede George Brandt (1733), who gave it the name. Extended to a blue color 1835 (a mineral containing it had been used as a blue coloring for glass since 16c.). Cf. nickel.

    mare (n.3)
    "night-goblin, incubus," Old English mare "incubus, nightmare, monster," from mera, mære, from Proto-Germanic *maron "goblin" (cf. Middle Low German mar, Middle Dutch mare, Old High German mara, German Mahr "incubus," Old Norse mara "nightmare, incubus"), from PIE *mora- "incubus" (cf. first element in Old Irish Morrigain "demoness of the corpses," literally "queen of the nightmare," also Bulgarian, Serbian mora, Czech mura, Polish zmora "incubus;" French cauchemar, with first element from Old French caucher "to trample"), from root *mer- "to rub away, harm" (see morbid).

    bugbear (n.)
    1580s, a sort of demon in the form of a bear that eats small children, also "object of dread" (whether real or not), from obsolete bug "goblin, scarecrow" (see bug (n.)) + bear (n.).

    orc (n.)
    "ogre, devouring monster," Old English orcþyrs, orcneas (plural), perhaps from a Romanic source akin to ogre, and ultimately from Latin Orcus "Hell," a word of unknown origin. Revived by J.R.R. Tolkien (1892-1973) as the name of a brutal race in Middle Earth.
    But Orcs and Trolls spoke as they would, without love of words or things; and their language was actually more degraded and filthy than I have shown it. ["Return of the King," 1955]


    So our own language history puts Goblin, Kobold (Cobalt), Mare (Nightmare), and Bugbear together as Goblins. Tolkien is indeed the one who interchanged Goblins and Orcs. (I was 1/2 right, Tolkien revieved "Orc" from the pits of disuse.)

    And then Orc and Ogre are together.

    I've now changed my mind and indeed would like to see separate factions of Orc and Goblin, but to combine them with the creatures out of our own language history.

  6. #36
    First off, good discussion guys!

    Second, AHHHH!!! I was DOUBLE quoted saying TWO DIFFERENT things!!!! Lol. Still, I have a good reason. You see, I'm listening to these debates. I've come to the table with my own ideas, but you guys can convince me to change my mind. In this case I was all for a conglomerate race for Orcs because I hadn't considered all the cultural DLC that might eventually come out. Of course, we can have it both ways. One culture of Orcs may work with Goblins, others may not. For the moment I think the best way to handle it is to sit back and wait. We can put goblins in one of the primaries and see how much support they get. I can explain a bit in the primary post about Orcs and Goblins and what have you. Once Orcs or Goblins are selected we can begin to shape them. Now, this does depend to some extent on the other two Giants. (Really it's down to the last one. Our second Giant didn't put Orcs in his "short list").

    Third, the community selects the races. Giants select the race they want from the ones that have bee chosen. Clear enough?

  7. #37
    Thanks, Aaron. I appreciate you weighing in on this

    Peace,

    -Troy

  8. #38
    For goblins I think you have to view them as not having much appreciation for life. If they breed fast and are all over the place the race would likely view each one as not being very important. With that in mind I like the idea of having at least one expendable unit. Whether that is something like a night goblin fanatic from warhammer, the glider from warhammer, a suicide bomber (not a fan of gunpowder myself) or a machine that just crashes into units and eventually breaks down does matter. Just whatever fits your vision the best. It fits the faction though and I didn't see one in your proposed list.

    Another thought on goblin hordes. Please keep in mind that hordes can bog down gameplay if not handled well. It will not be fun having to fight against numerous large, easily killable groups. Not saying you shouldn't do that but keep in mind what effects they can have on gameplay as you design them.

    Also I think mixing them with Orcs also works. Orcs and goblins apart I think will find it hard to have many interesting units. Put them together though and you have a nation with probably the best unit diversity. I don't think that should be overlooked as a way of making nations feel different. It would make the race unpridictable which is a good thing in my opinion. Maybe that is too "normal" for everyone but I personally like it.

  9. #39
    I disagree with your last point. I'm quite sure, you can find way more goblin(-only) units than you can find, say, elf units. If elves are a distinct race (or even more than one), goblins can easily be one as well.

    There are so many fitting goblin units:
    - Footsoldiers (ordinary spearmen, raiders, assassins, ...)
    - Scouts (raiders (again), trappers, ...)
    - Riders (of wolfs, giant spiders, giant birds, boards, stags, ...)
    - Engineers (and thus catapults, chariots, rams, ...)
    - Magic units (shamans)
    - Expendable units (as Blackblade suggested)
    - Support units, if you want (e.g. alchemists, engineers)
    - Come-along races (trolls, ogers, giants, ...)

    I think, goblins as a stand-alone faction offer more than most races do. Orcs shouldn't be a problem either

    The problem is, if you give the faction access to normal or better units (i.e. orcs) you must take advantages from another side. In other words: You can't allow them to both produce MANY cheap and upkeep free units AND give them brutal orc soldiers.
    Last edited by VolkervonAlzey; 05-23-2013 at 09:50 AM.

  10. #40
    maybe add as "joke" (well, easter egg) unit fey/wild hunt goblin unit from dresden file as elite unit ;-) nice/horrible surprise for enemy after horde of cannon fodder and suicide bombers. this is from http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...nsAreDifferent literature category on page:

    Goblins in The Dresden Files are notably different, at least the ones under the Erlking. These goblins are not cannon fodder - they're professional hunters and warriors, and have ninja-like speed and silence; at one point they get the drop on an entire Red Court vampire commando team and take them down without making a sound.
    • Harry describes them as ninjas... from Krypton.


    p.s.: there is 3 courts, white is emotion eaters most human like weaker to other vampires physically and have least of standard vampire weakness so can walk on sun and faith/holy magic dont hurt them that much or none, dont remember that part, but most mentioned is kind that feed and induce lust while other emotions like fear possible food, bram stokers Dracula is written to describe weaknesses of black court and reds are bat-like creatures that can make some "flesh mask" to appear human, saliva is narcotic/drug, on other hand there was just mention so fare of jade court in asia if i remember correctly

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